SIP 16" Good Bandsaw Gone Bad.

[Guyforks]

Hi
I have the 16" SIP Bandsaw and I'm stuck trying to get this thing back in alignment. I say back as at one point I was able to cut my own veneers without any problems.
I have ongoing orders to re-saw hundreds of meters of reclaimed boards.
So the problem is the blades (I've tried 3) all seem to be sitting not only at an angle in the guides but the guides seem (on the top only) to be sitting at an angle. It looks as though the whole lot of guides, the casting they sit in and the arm that raises and lowers all needs to move over to the right or move the wheel to the left. Unfortunately there's no adjustment for this.
To add to the problem the adjustable arm the casting sits on allowing the casting and bearings to move backwards and forwards is not sitting straight in the casting.
I've tried having the blade gullet center on the tyre and also tried the blade centered on the tyer.
I'm just doing an experiment with a narrower blade just to see if I can get some cut but it doesn't look hopeful.
Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks
G.

 

[sunnybob]

You havent moved the bottom wheel, have you? If so then you have a major headache.
assuming the lower wheel has not been moved...
Back ALL bearing guides right away from the blade.
Adjust the blade position on the top wheel by hand turning the wheel with the blade obviously too loose.
When you can get the blade to stay in that position, tighten a couple turns and hand spin again. Repeat one more time, and then give it a quick burst of power to make sure the blade stays in place.
Tighten the blade enough that all flutter movement goes way while its running.
Only when the blade is 100% in place and tight do you then move the side bearings up unitll they dont quite touch the blade.
Then move the rear bearings up so that they prevent the blade teeth being squashed by the side bearings when rear ward pressure is applied to the blade.
To be honest, slightly out of square on the bearings is not that relevant as they only touch the blade when cutting on a turn.

 

[Guyforks]

Hi Sunny.
No I've not touched the bottom wheel.
I see what your saying about the blade position before adjusting the guides but none of my guides would touch the blade until work beings being pushed through the saw.
The problem is getting that twist out of the blade long before any guides are adjusted.
I can adjust the table and the bottom bearings just not the top ones. There's no lateral adjustment of the casting/block and no way to twist the bearings and casting/block.
You can see on the marks on one side of the blade, just behind the gullet and on the other side the marks are in the center of the blade.
it's almost as though I need to get a Bessey clamp, Clamp the casting with the bearings in and jimmy or twist the whole thing to the left then pull the rise and fall arm out to reset it.
I've got a 1/2" blade and you can still see the twist.
The thing screams like a Banshee as soon as you start to push any timber through it cos it wants to follow the twist.
I'll end up burning he bearings out.
G.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I'm not too familiar with that bandsaw, but the likes of these I've seen before, it is usually to do with the blade guide/post fixings to the body of the bandsaw. I'm guessing there is a rack and pinion rise and fall that is housed between a a couple of metal plates, which is bolted to the upper bandsaw case? Undo the bolts holding this on (4 bolts?) and put in a shim to move the guide post in the direction you need it to go and re tighten. It will take a bit if trial and error, but shouldn't take long to do. Feeler gauges will do the trick for shim stock. Hope this helps, otherwise post a photo of the guide post mounting.

Mike

 

[Ttrees]

Hello

Have you got a warranty with the machine?, I had a machine with severe misalignment's before, beyond any adjustment atall.
While talking with company rep, I got a bulls story about the machine being built around the wheels
and you messed with it and its your fault!
Sounds like you've had it for a while though, I don't know how old those SIP machines can be, but I've never seen a 20 year old machine from them, so I would guess its not rubber degradation unless some chemical done the deed.

Have you still got the blunt blades for the machine?
If so are they they the same width and thickness of blade?

Have you got any damage to the tire, or build up on them?
Is the sawdust patterns the same on both wheels or unchanged from when it was working sound?

Have you moved the saws location without a blade on,
as your jacking screws could have been loose?

Is there any blade movement forward and back, or side to side?

Can it cut with a new blade or any atall?
I suspect there could be build up or damage on one of the tires, I have got a new tire for my 24" machine
as the lower one has a chunk missing from it.
I have been dressing the old one as its a vulcanised tire, and is originally quite thicker than the replacement.
While dressing the old tire to try and fix it before replacement, I have experienced the blade wont cut, as in you have to push really hard with whatever blade you choose.
The saw won't cut straight either while the tires don't match up in profile.
(my ACM has flat tires, so you would think this would be easy, it only takes very very minute adjustments to change this profile, and the blade dances all over the place again)
My saw is doing this again after using a 1.3 TPI blade.


Try everything you can without doing anything irreversible is the rule.

If it is the jacking bolts are loose, there is a Rikon bandsaw guide for adjusting the lower wheel to eliminate blade movement.

Hope this helps
Tom

EDIT some more things to look out for ..
Has the brush for cleaning the tire moved?
Is the upper wheel shaft moved atall
There is adjustments here too forward and back, and side to side.
I'd just check if everything is tight.
You can take the upper wheel off easily, so the one bolt might have came loose if you moved the saw without a blade tensioned.
Do everything you can before attempting the top wheel adjustment.

Good luck

 

[Alexam]

I wonder if the blade has twisted in some way? Have you tried another blade?
Your location on your 'Profile' may help you if there is someone nearby?
Malcolm

 

[CHJ]

If it has been fine until recently then look for debris etc. in the track, such as it is, that the upper guide and blade shield runs in, I would dismantle it and clean everything out around the rack and pinion area and check that wood dust or shavings have not got trapped and compressed behind the Rack.

Have to remove mine on the 14" version occasionally to clean junk out of the rack and clamping tracks.

 

[Guyforks]

Wow.
Thanks folks.
I think woodbrains may have it. This was the only area I could see that I could make a difference and would get close to the changes needed.
No there's no warranty it's about 3 years old and it has had a hard life re-sawing meters worth of reclaimed boards.
The tires seem to be OK with no lumps out of them and wear looks even.
When I say it's only recent this probably started about 600 linear meters ago.
Dust could have got in behind something that's one I'll look into but I don't think any has got behind the rack and pinion. That lot is solid.
You can see from the image showing the full height of the blade and the table, that bearing assembly looks angled it's pointing right so with that in mind I would suggest this has nothing to do with the wheels or the blades for that mater. How can 4 different blades of different widths all have the same fault. How could a blade have a twist anyway?
I keep going back to that rack and pinion.
Shims it may have to be.
That could counter the twist but I'm not too sure about the lateral movement to the right that's needed.
G.

 

[Guyforks]

Oh and just to twist the salad fork.
This blade was pulled out of a box today after being resharpened.
Bodie and Doyle they're not =D> =D> :roll: .
G.

 

[Ttrees]

How could somebody send that out to you, that's absolutely dreadful.
They should have paid you the money for wrecking that blade, and whatever postage costs if you posted it to them.
Obviously their machine is not functioning properly.
You deserve compensation.

Onto the problem again.
Have you got a known blade that worked properly beforehand.
A few would be nice.

Forget about the guides and guidepost adjustments for the moment take them totally out of the equation.
How does the saw run, can you notice blade twisting when hand turning the wheel?

I was not on about lumps missing from your wheel, I was talking about slight wear to the wheels.
This would be in thousands, and is not obvious.
Was there any traces of rubber dust anywhere.

And the questions I asked about things coming loose, like jacking bolts should be checked.
Have you checked your wheels for coplanar ? the top wheel could have moved.

You should describe what other

I will post a pic of how fickle the blade can be with seemingly well dressed tires as its hard to believe.

I'm guessing you either moved the saw without being tensioned or it was on a road trip, and that moved somethng
Or theirs build up on the tires.
If there is a misalignment from something being moved, I would be wary of putting a brand new blade on it as it might distort it.....
BUT at the same time, blades are so fickle that you need a new blade or one that worked perfect previously to check up on it again.

Worst case scenario is that you put an inch wide blade on it and tensioned it to 25,000 PSI and distorted the spine on your machine ?

One might take a potshot guess that you done so, and thats possibly why you received a damaged blade as the twisted blade sent to them wrecked their machine.
I have no experience with blade sharpening machines so can't be sure if a damaged blade can be sharpened correctly.
You would have to know what machine was used to make an accurate evaluation of that.
If so, a costly lesson learned for the sharpener.
This should be standard practice to check it as sharpening folk should have to deal with woodmizer blades that may be damaged.
If the machine can't do it, just say no.

Frame strength is one of the most important reasons for buying the right bandsaw.
Just because a saw has whatever size capacity under the guides, doesn't mean that its capable of cutting wood with it.
It might be OK for cutting foam, but not hardwoods, or tough stuff

DON'T BELIEVE MANUFACTURERS CLAIMS OF MAXIMUM BLADE SIZE
It is usually half that, with a thin gauge blade.
Ian at tuffsaws sells nice thin gauge blades that should be tried out if the need for a wider blade is necessary.
Tom

 

[Steve Maskery]

That really is by far the worst sharpening of a blade I have ever seen. Kick up a fuss.

 

[tomatwark]

I have to agree that the sharpening of the blade is really bad.

I notice you mention that you have 100's of metres of board to resaw.

That machine no matter what the label says is really a hobby/trade rated machine and not designed to do what you are asking of it. ( we have the record version and would not even think of taking that sort of work on with it)

At a £1000.00 new over 3 years if you have been charging the right money the machine should have paid for itself.

Buy a new one, it will be costing more money than it is worth messing around with it.

Sell it on to a weekend warrior who has the time to play with it and get it to work.

 

[NazNomad]

This blade was pulled out of a box today after being resharpened.

Name & shame... unless you're happy with the supplied karambit. :-D

 

[Alexam]

More cleaning on a regular basis would help with your bandsaw. Buildup of sap and sawdust can only add to your problems.