DBT85
Established Member
I have power and the insert the previous owner made has been refitted to actually allow the riving knife. Time to have a go.
They have time till I'm ready! ha.
Sip 01446 12" Table saw details, repairs and review
- Thread starter DBT85
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DBT85
Established Member
We'll I've been having a go and it seems like it'll do the job nicely. On some test bits of birch ply (the first in my workshop and it came with the saw 
) I do have a slight variance when measuring the width of the boards cut. Its about .2-.3mm wider at one end than the other depending on the length. I think it's the fence being out at the back so tomorrow I'll fiddle some more. It may all be for nought once I have a mitre gauge worth a damn as I might need to realign the blade anyway.
But overall, it's nice. With some better DX over the blade and closing off of the blade shroud a bit it'll be cleaner than it is now, but it won't get much better until it's got a HVLP on it.
The motor fan seems to be holding up ok which is nice.
It does seem to make a noise that sounds like a vibration which will go away when running things through, I'll investigate more tomorrow.
) I do have a slight variance when measuring the width of the boards cut. Its about .2-.3mm wider at one end than the other depending on the length. I think it's the fence being out at the back so tomorrow I'll fiddle some more. It may all be for nought once I have a mitre gauge worth a damn as I might need to realign the blade anyway.But overall, it's nice. With some better DX over the blade and closing off of the blade shroud a bit it'll be cleaner than it is now, but it won't get much better until it's got a HVLP on it.
The motor fan seems to be holding up ok which is nice.
It does seem to make a noise that sounds like a vibration which will go away when running things through, I'll investigate more tomorrow.
Im not sure no, but i will check next time to feel what the motor housing feels like - and perhaps Ttrees is right and its a centrifugal switch issue, no idea how to check that though! Does only seem to happen when I put it under load for a while, though ive not used it much the last few months so i cant be sure.
Ill double check re: the fan and get back to you, thanks for the offer though, im sure we can figure something out if needs be.
I tried get the blade parallel in exactly the way you did, slacked off the motor assembly and went at it with a stick and mallet... i cant remember exactly how it wasnt playing ball, i think ive blocked the memories, but ill give it another go when im investigating all the other things. I also suspect some arbor tuning is neccesary a la Wandel method, as a previous poster mentioned, im wondering whether its not worth taking the whole thing apart and starting again!
DBT85
Established Member
Well I'd love to say Its all tuned up and finished but alas not. A lot of faffing around and backache was achieved though.
I manaded to set up my dial indicator to measure the blade runout. On the 250mm blade fitted there is a 0.15mm (6 thou) runout. I marked the blade, arbour and flange so I could see the alignment and for the sake of interest put a 0.1mm thick bit of masking tape on the arbor. Runout increased to 0.4mm (16 thou). Popped that off, put it all back and accepted that at this moment in time, 6 thou isn't the end of the world.
I checked my blade alignment again with my combo square and was happy with its placement. I then set about running some test cuts on my favoured bit of ever narrowing birch ply, marking the faces and which way it was to be fed through to ensure I was repeating the same cuts. Consistently I would make a cut (8 times in all) and one end would be in the margin of 0.15 to 0.2mm (6-8 thou apparently) wider than the other. One managed to get to 0.02mm but it was the odd one out. The same end was always fed through first, no matter which face was up. The same end was always wider than the other.
So I looked at my riving knife and found it was ever so slightly proud on one side. It's barely 0.2mm narrower than the teeth on the blade so its a very snug fit. I'm wondering if the blade that came with the saw is wider, alas I don't have it. Anyway, fiddling complete and it looked to be sorted.
Next I set about checking the fence alignment again, it looked to be about 0.2 mm out, with the far end actually pointing toward the blade. I set up some stops on the table, applied some masking tape to the one at the end that needed moving and fastened it down. Sorted.
So I used the saw to make something that could run in a slot, and then something to hold my dial indicator. With a new tool created I re checked my blade alignment and runout. Of course, this bit of material is also slightly wider at one end than the other, and the slots are not as pristine as they may once have been. There is a little wobble, but it serves a purpose.
The blade is out of alignment to the left slot no matter how I wrangle the indicator. By 0.02mm. I'm ok with that especially as it was done with just my combo square and a mallet. Next up was double checking my runout, again I've got the same 0.15mm.
I now happened to set my fence on one of the slots and noticed it wasn't parallel. Fuuuu. I check using my new dial and sure enough, I've 1.2mm variance from end to end. So again with the stop blocks and re setting the fence. I was happy with it where it now resided. and it was time to come inside and parent.
Maybe I'll get somewhere tomorrow.
I manaded to set up my dial indicator to measure the blade runout. On the 250mm blade fitted there is a 0.15mm (6 thou) runout. I marked the blade, arbour and flange so I could see the alignment and for the sake of interest put a 0.1mm thick bit of masking tape on the arbor. Runout increased to 0.4mm (16 thou). Popped that off, put it all back and accepted that at this moment in time, 6 thou isn't the end of the world.
I checked my blade alignment again with my combo square and was happy with its placement. I then set about running some test cuts on my favoured bit of ever narrowing birch ply, marking the faces and which way it was to be fed through to ensure I was repeating the same cuts. Consistently I would make a cut (8 times in all) and one end would be in the margin of 0.15 to 0.2mm (6-8 thou apparently) wider than the other. One managed to get to 0.02mm but it was the odd one out. The same end was always fed through first, no matter which face was up. The same end was always wider than the other.
So I looked at my riving knife and found it was ever so slightly proud on one side. It's barely 0.2mm narrower than the teeth on the blade so its a very snug fit. I'm wondering if the blade that came with the saw is wider, alas I don't have it. Anyway, fiddling complete and it looked to be sorted.
Next I set about checking the fence alignment again, it looked to be about 0.2 mm out, with the far end actually pointing toward the blade. I set up some stops on the table, applied some masking tape to the one at the end that needed moving and fastened it down. Sorted.
So I used the saw to make something that could run in a slot, and then something to hold my dial indicator. With a new tool created I re checked my blade alignment and runout. Of course, this bit of material is also slightly wider at one end than the other, and the slots are not as pristine as they may once have been. There is a little wobble, but it serves a purpose.
The blade is out of alignment to the left slot no matter how I wrangle the indicator. By 0.02mm. I'm ok with that especially as it was done with just my combo square and a mallet. Next up was double checking my runout, again I've got the same 0.15mm.
I now happened to set my fence on one of the slots and noticed it wasn't parallel. Fuuuu. I check using my new dial and sure enough, I've 1.2mm variance from end to end. So again with the stop blocks and re setting the fence. I was happy with it where it now resided. and it was time to come inside and parent.
Maybe I'll get somewhere tomorrow.
DBT85
Established Member
I got somewhere, I think?
Once I'd finally gotten into the workshop this afternoon I set about checking things out once more using my dial indicator. I started again at blade alignment to the slots. Both slots I was happy with a consistent 0.03mm max difference for alignment. Next was runout once again. Again both sides reported the 0.15mm reading I had from yesterday. So far so good. With those appearing to be normal and me not actually using the slots for cutting anything yet I focused on the fence.
It's the original aluminium extrusion that came with the saw with a few war wounds and scrapes from use so some defects are to be expected. It does however seem that its not entirely straight and in fact appears to have a tiny bow in the middle, around 0.3 - 0.4mm. The ends of both sides in both slots appeared to be close enough to identical but the middle did seem out. I'm wondering if this is partly to blame for my cuts being slightly different widths at either end. Maybe the fence still isn't suite in line with the blade.
In a bit to actually just get on and use the damned thing I ripped down two 130mm strips from a full width of ply to make a drawer for my recent flip cart. The strips were indeed once again slightly different widths at each end though minute enough it will be fine for this application, so the issue is clearly not resolved.
Work beckons now for 4 days while I ponder the issue further. The only other thing I can think of is to secure a new flat board to the surface of the fence and see what happens. I could try some of this 17mm hardwood ply or perhaps dismantle part of my assembly bench which has some 60x20 on it.
My overall thoughts at the moment are that it's ok. Certainly better than any other table saw I've owned. The fence while possibly being problematic does at least appear to be locking square provided one pushes forward when locking. Though it's not sitting vertically and to correct that would mean removing all of the bolts and going through that entire process again, a paint in the backside. For most of what I want to do right now if a part is 0.3mm wider at one end the world will not collapse around me. I would love to know what's causing it though.
Anyoen else reading, run a strip of something through and tell me what if any width difference there is betwen each end. Maybe I'm looking at it too much and hoping for more than is possible.
Once I'd finally gotten into the workshop this afternoon I set about checking things out once more using my dial indicator. I started again at blade alignment to the slots. Both slots I was happy with a consistent 0.03mm max difference for alignment. Next was runout once again. Again both sides reported the 0.15mm reading I had from yesterday. So far so good. With those appearing to be normal and me not actually using the slots for cutting anything yet I focused on the fence.
It's the original aluminium extrusion that came with the saw with a few war wounds and scrapes from use so some defects are to be expected. It does however seem that its not entirely straight and in fact appears to have a tiny bow in the middle, around 0.3 - 0.4mm. The ends of both sides in both slots appeared to be close enough to identical but the middle did seem out. I'm wondering if this is partly to blame for my cuts being slightly different widths at either end. Maybe the fence still isn't suite in line with the blade.
In a bit to actually just get on and use the damned thing I ripped down two 130mm strips from a full width of ply to make a drawer for my recent flip cart. The strips were indeed once again slightly different widths at each end though minute enough it will be fine for this application, so the issue is clearly not resolved.
Work beckons now for 4 days while I ponder the issue further. The only other thing I can think of is to secure a new flat board to the surface of the fence and see what happens. I could try some of this 17mm hardwood ply or perhaps dismantle part of my assembly bench which has some 60x20 on it.
My overall thoughts at the moment are that it's ok. Certainly better than any other table saw I've owned. The fence while possibly being problematic does at least appear to be locking square provided one pushes forward when locking. Though it's not sitting vertically and to correct that would mean removing all of the bolts and going through that entire process again, a paint in the backside. For most of what I want to do right now if a part is 0.3mm wider at one end the world will not collapse around me. I would love to know what's causing it though.
Anyoen else reading, run a strip of something through and tell me what if any width difference there is betwen each end. Maybe I'm looking at it too much and hoping for more than is possible.
DBT85
Established Member
Fellow 01446 (or even 01332) owners. Would you mind sending me some pics of the inside of your units please. The motor mount on mine has just been replaced but it seems they did a version revision between mind being made and now, which means I almost certainly need another new part to make it all fit again. Joy. I'm after this particular money shot please.
The red circled part is supposed to connect to the worm gear. On my original motor mount that circled area is actually on the left of the mount, not the right as seen here. I have considered that it might be possible to just move the worm gear and the lower part connected to the shaft to the other side of that unit but I'd rather be out of options before I start bodging.
The red circled part is supposed to connect to the worm gear. On my original motor mount that circled area is actually on the left of the mount, not the right as seen here. I have considered that it might be possible to just move the worm gear and the lower part connected to the shaft to the other side of that unit but I'd rather be out of options before I start bodging.
VornCreative
Member
Did you manage to get anywhere with this? I've just seen the thread & own a 01446. I can take some photo's this weekend if that's of any help.
DBT85
Established Member
Not really. It was eventually determined that SIP themselves do bot have accurate up to date tech drawings on their own saws as they include one modification that they know about and at least one that they don't. If your saw Is a newer one it would be of interest to see the guts of it at least.
clogs
just can't decide
DBT85
I dont own one of these saw's but always have an interest in such things......
Like me ur going to a lot of trouble for accuracy.......I spent days trying to sort my old saw out.....
So will suggest that u check the fence again, loose and then under load...ie locked.....
all the time I spent faffing around it turned out to be the fence was warping quite a bit under load.....
I was quite happy to mangle it with a hammer and bin it......
I bought one (after market, Bessemer....?...) over from the States whilst on holiday....in the old days.....
Just worth a check and it only take mins.....
good luck......
I dont own one of these saw's but always have an interest in such things......
Like me ur going to a lot of trouble for accuracy.......I spent days trying to sort my old saw out.....
So will suggest that u check the fence again, loose and then under load...ie locked.....
all the time I spent faffing around it turned out to be the fence was warping quite a bit under load.....
I was quite happy to mangle it with a hammer and bin it......
I bought one (after market, Bessemer....?...) over from the States whilst on holiday....in the old days.....
Just worth a check and it only take mins.....
good luck......
Hi, sorry to resurrect this thread but I’m curious to know if you’ve fixed your tablesaw and if you’re happy about it, or if you’ve moved on to another model!
Thank you
DBT85
Established Member
Honestly it has mostly been used as a 250kg workbench more than a table saw thus far
The fence that mine has has a bow in it which doesn't help and as yet I've still not found confidence that I'll get the results from it that I want, so I'm less inclined to use it. I WANT to use it, but also have limited time to dedicate to faffing around with it. We're I flush with money then I'd more likely head toward something like the Laguna F3 or similar.
My main issues with the saw design (rather than my own versions issues) are that the blade is slung from the table, not the cabinet. This makes getting the blade parallel to the mitre slots frankly a colossal pain in the backside. You need to clamber underneath, open the door, reach in and undo 3 of the 4 bolts holding the blade to the table, then go back to the top and try and adjust it, to then go under again to do it up so that you can check it again to see that it moved a fraction. Repeat.
I'm not a fan of fences that grip both front and back.
On top of that, the saw has had revisions that the parts diagrams do not reflect which means I was unable to replace a damaged part, having to find another creative solution so motor tensioning.
Getting it running to be happy with it is on the list. I'm currently working on a couple of other workshop projects before I get to that (again).
DBT85
Established Member
VornCreative
Member
Honestly it has mostly been used as a 250kg workbench more than a table saw thus far
We're I flush with money then I'd more likely head toward something like the Laguna F3 or similar.
My main issues with the saw design (rather than my own versions issues) are that the blade is slung from the table, not the cabinet. This makes getting the blade parallel to the mitre slots frankly a colossal pain in the backside. You need to clamber underneath, open the door, reach in and undo 3 of the 4 bolts holding the blade to the table, then go back to the top and try and adjust it, to then go under again to do it up so that you can check it again to see that it moved a fraction. Repeat.
I'm not a fan of fences that grip both front and back.
On top of that, the saw has had revisions that the parts diagrams do not reflect which means I was unable to replace a damaged part, having to find another creative solution so motor tensioning.
Getting it running to be happy with it is on the list. I'm currently working on a couple of other workshop projects before I get to that (again).
I've recently moved my workshop (moving house was easier..) and quickly set up my 01446 again for use, and remembered why it drives me insane. I have the same issue as you with the mitre slots not aligning to the the blade, the adjustment is a pain in the arse as mentioned with the 4 bolts that hang the motor from the table, annoyingly I get it close, lock everything down go to use it and then notice magically it's out again. There appears to be some flex in the arm that holds the arbor...
How did you get on with setting up your riving knife? I have a cut down version (i use a sled quite a lot) and to get it setup in-line seems impossible. Though I did think about replacing the knife for an aftermarket one that is cut down already & set up for the blade size/thickness.
The original fence is pants - I made my own taking inspiration from designs on the internet & also having access to milling machines and welders. It's a T-style fence with plenty of adjustability and a cam made from HDPE, it works great but obviously has the little niggles with it being a prototype. I'm thinking of improving the fence this next year, and once I do I may be able to send this one to you if that's of interest?
Failing that, selling a kidney and getting a F3 may be the next move - I love this saw, it has plenty of grunt and is nice and solid, but some of the design features let it down massively (i'm looking at you table adjustment, riving knife, clearance insert & fence).
DBT85
Established Member
Yes, that blade adjustment really is the kick in the teeth. I ended up taking a 20x20x40mm block of wood and threading a m8 bolt into it. I then put that into the insert hole and put the head of the bolt against the hinges with the wood end against the other side of the hole. It meant I could test it all and if it was out I could just crank the bolt a tiny bit to try and nudge the hinge to the right spot. It felt a bit more repeatable than just wailing on it trying to get it right!
Ridiculous really as all it would have taken is a fat set screw in the right place to make the adjustment quite easy even if doing it all up again was a ballache.
The riving knife I seem to have ok, but I did also replace the 2 bolts that hold it in place with 2 clamping handle levers. It meant I could remove it without tools. As I recall I did have to cut them down to make them fit. Again its a PITA to adjust it to get it right and because of how its mounted it has some movement in it anyway so its easy to think you have it right only to find that you don't.
If you do end up replacing the fence I'd enjoy trying your replacement. I keep meaning to build the one that @Steve Maskery has in one of his DVDs.
TerribleMaker
New member
Ohh thats a much nicer saw than this one Tom, it's got trunnions and everything!
Home made fan printed and fitted. A 10x15mm strip of masking tape was used to just thicken the spindle enough to be a nice friction fit. I probably could have designed something into the fan to help with that.
Next up was sorting the blade alignment out, the 4 bolts for that are really easy to get to, seen here.
And finally the sides and rails are on, brande new guard and riving knife fitted and calibrated. Just waiting on power which might be tomorrow, might be Monday. I have other jobs to be getting on with anyway.
Hey DBT85, sorry to drag up a post from 4 years ago but just wanted to ask how you've been getting on with your SIP 12 inch saw? I managed to pick one up on Facebook marketplace for £300 and for the most part it seems fine however I've noticed a bit of wobble on the blade during startup and slowing down after power off. I've tensioned the belt a little further but not sure if this is somewhat expected for a saw this size or not as I had a job site saw before this and not particularly familiar with these types of saws.
