Shoulder plane technique

[Modernist]

You've still got more than one problem then.

If the thinnest shaving you can get is 0.3mm that is at least 10 times too thick. This is why you are churning up the tenon. If the sole is not flat then this could be the cause but a run up some wet and dry should flatten it (with the blade secured but backed away from the working position. You should not have to do this on a plane of this quality so I would return it to HNT.

Separately, why is the edge breaking up. This should simply not happen irrrespective of the other problems if it is ground to 25 deg and honed to 30.

What happens if you try to use it with the grain on some easy timber like pine?

Brian

 

[ivan]

During the course of discussion there seems to have been some misunderstanding of my use of the term "back bevel". This is usually seen on the top of a (bevel down) iron to increase the effective pitch from 45 deg to say 55 deg (10 deg backbevel).

A backbevel on a bevel down iron will be underneath, and reduce the clearance angle. This allows you to sharpen the normal (bevel up, or top,) bevel 10 deg less, and so lower the effective pitch by 10 deg making end grain easier to cut.

I am still a little bemused that a high effective pitch of 60 deg (however obtained) is necessary for cutting end grain, however interlocked. With grain rebates, yes, but tenon shoulders?

 

[PaulO]

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I repeat something someone else has said.

If you cannot set less than a .3mm shaving then you are not going to successfully cut the end grain. I am going to assume you are happy with adjusting the blade position and that that isn't the problem.

You probably need to lap the bottom of the shoulder plane with the blade in place. Most shoulder planes (including LN) are ground without a blade and the geometry of the shoulder plane means that blade clamping deflects the sole. This leads to a bump behind the mouth and you will never be able to take a shaving thinner than this bump.

David Charlesworth's new DVD covers setting up and using shoulder planes (including the sole lapping). He agrees with Mike and Rob that the chisel is the right tool for trimming shoulders, as a shoulder plane will leave a step in the edge of the adjacent shoulder.

Incidentally the new DVD also covers sharpening and using a back bevel.

Doussie is a very hard and abrasive wood, which contains lots of mineral inclusions. These will rapidly dull a sharp blade in the same way Iroko will. DC has a few workbenches with Doussie tops, and he told me that he could only take 8ft of shavings before the blade needed resharpening. Sounds incredibly boring to me.

So to sum up:
- You need to do something to your shoulder plane to take about 0.03mm shavings before you can expect to trim end grain.
- Almost all shoulder planes require some sole lapping when you have set a blade tension you are happy with.
- Doussie is a bugger to work and will blunt your tools.
- Shoulder planes shouldn't be used to trim shoulders.

 

[Chris_belgium]

Victory at last , flattened the sole on a piece of glass, first 80 grit and then 400 grit. Then sharpened the blade primary bevel 30° on a belt sander on 240 grit, then microbevel 600 1200 8000 grit on dmt dia sharp stones.

I now also start to understand why this isn't the perfect tool for cleaning up tenon shoulders, it works ok on smaller stuff, but I bought this tool to help me making big m&t joints needed for the construction for my garden gate. The shoulder will be 2cm wide on the m&t's I'll be making so it requires a lot of force while planing, wich makes it hard for me to keep it controlled. No big deal tough, a beautifull plane like this I might even put it on display in my living room (if SWIMBO will let me ) I guess it's time to look into paring chisels as i've been told here repeatedly that this is the tool for the job.

 

[Ironballs]

Please excuse me if this is a really dumb question, but I thought that it was common to have the bevel edge facing the other way on this type of plane?

 

[Karl]

Please excuse me if this is a really dumb question, but I thought that it was common to have the bevel edge facing the other way on this type of plane?

No - bevel down (for 60 degree pitch). If it is bevel up (which you can do), and the blade is honed at 30 degrees, it will give you a 90 degree pitch, giving a scraping action.

Cheers

Karl

 

[graween]

PaulO.

It's funny that DC does not recommend using shoulder plane for trimming shoulders as the cover of the DVD shoes a tenon trimming :lol:

For me it depends of the size of the work. Also I like my shoulder plane for that because it gives you more "sole contact", but it's more personal opinion and way of working. But chisel works fine. Especially the big problem when using should plane for trimming is the end grain on the end of the shoulder it splits. So I always put an other piece of wood to prevent this.

Best Regards.