Should I buy a spindle moulder rather than router table??

[deema]

@TRITON a hand held router is a small spindle moulder. It runs a lot faster and for the larger routers which have c2KW+ motors within them the power on a single phase spindle isn’t that much different. So, to me handling something spinning at 17000 RPM with the same cutter projection as a spindle moulder and power seems rather bizarre to say it’s safer. Yet, they are recommended to everyone and anyone.
For smaller routers using say 1/4” shafted bits or, indeed larger routers in a table (which is identical to a spindle) that has only a 1/2” shaft it’s very easy to break the router shafts and have a high speed projectile. Now, the chances of breaking a spindle shaft which it typically 30mm or more is significantly lower / I’ve never heard of it.

 

[TRITON]

@deema.

Im not arguing with you, my concern is 100% to the OP and his experience.

I have a diploma in furniture design and construction. I trained for 4 years in a college with professional lecturers who have probably 30-40 years each, in industrial production to professional cabinet shops.
I understand everything about my chosen subject, and my point is to the OP concerning safety.

You can do a degree standard in machinery, and the only time you're in that environment ever going to be allowed to operate a moulder unsupervised, is probably after 2 to 3 years in.
It's not a toy, and it doesn't matter how experienced you are, its how experienced the OP is.

" Should I buy a spindle moulder rather than router table??"

No. Buy a router table. and maybe look at something with an electronic lift. You'll get plenty of accuracy to make your doors on.
Theres a number of people better than I can advise you on whats best.
You can buy what is basically a router motor that fits into a lift. All in all it depends on what you are willing to spend, and they can be quite expensive if you go for a good quality package. Plus these more boutique brands are sought after and hold their price so much better than a rusty old spindle moulder. Plus they'll take up less room and be easier to move. Spindle moulders usually weight hundreds of kg's and take up a lot of room.
Maybe something like this system would suit.
https://www.rutlands.com/sp+routing...ctronic-router-lift-and-motor-rutlands®+r5078
Or this one.
https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/i...xed-base-router-remote-speed-control-and-nvr/
Theres another well regarded company called JessEm, specializes in routers and lifts. Personally I'd love one of these but funds dont allow.

 

[johnnyb]

probably good advice re router table. I only really calmed down using a spindle after a few years.

 

[Seascaper]

Over the years as I have moved house and had differing levels of workshop space I have bought and then sold machines - and each time instantly regretted it. I sold my table saw and record BS500 bandsaw two years ago and am now kicking myself. I also sold a Triton router table. I now need to make about 9 oak ledge and brace doors for our cottage and really wanted to T&G the boards. I was going to look at buying a router table (I am unlikely to have much time to also make a router table aswell as have a busy job). I was looking at the UJK router table but seems quite pricey with the bits and pieces. I have just been offered (to buy) a spindle moulder. I have never used one - looks a bit scary cutter-wise, but wondered re people's experiences. I meed to ,make architrave for doors aswell. I'm thinking of future proofing but also just not sure re spindle moulder as cutter looks fierce!

Any views appreciated.

Hello,
I can recommend the compact Trend router table that sits either on your workbench or somewhere else like a workmate. Very easy to use and takes up little space. I can take it outside for big jobs such as trimming some iroko planks and use some stands to support the timber.
Spindle moulders are great for the commercial world where you might be producing miles of mouldings for picture framers etc.
Regards

 

[Spectric]

Would a big spindle not be safe when used with a power feeder, for me the table saw is my most dangerous beast with the mitre saw next and bandsaw down the list. Then something in common use in metalwork, how many people are using grinders having not been trained in the handling and fitting of abrasive wheels. I think having such a large cutter is what can make a spindle a hazard but for me seeing such a cutter would make me even more cautious or is it the perception that routers are home workshop and spindles more trade.

 

[Ollie78]

I don't think a spindle moulder is any more dangerous than a router table and probably less dangerous than a freehand router in practice.
Certainly safety is an essential factor but I think being overly scared of the spindle moulder ( or any machine ) is not helpful and can be counterproductive.
The spindle moulder handbook is pretty good in general for some practical advice.

Ollie

 

[baldkev]

Ive got a small spindle moulder, an axminster one from the 90s, it has an 18mm shaft, and bore rings to use 30mm and 31mm blocks, plus a router collet setup.
I only have one euro block and a number of knives and limiters.

I also have 3 routers. The big hitachi is for kitchen tops etc, the palm routers for small site use and roundovers. I often put the palm routers in a router plate off ebay ( 25 quid ) and mount that in the bench at the workshop or a workmate, to have a makeshift router table.

For larger cut profiles, rebates etc, then spindle is great. I am not formally trainer on it. Ive used one in a previous job..... it was set up for me and i fed it wood to chew on ( power feed )
Now here's the important bit ( for me ) ...... i have a lot of respect for it. Not fear, but i know what they are capable of and i doublecheck everything i do to set it up knives tightened properly, block bolted down onto spindle, height set and locked fence set and locked, guards set, push springs etc etc and when i switch it on i have 100% focus on my movements and the cutting area.

And im the same with that little palm router in the plate because complacency is the biggest issue.
Im not advocating untrained use of big machinery. I had read a fair bit on them before getting one. I fully intend to book onto an axi course at some point as I'll learn more and will gain from the experience.

 

[TRITON]

Would a big spindle not be safe when used with a power feeder, for me the table saw is my most dangerous beast with the mitre saw next and bandsaw down the list. Then something in common use in metalwork, how many people are using grinders having not been trained in the handling and fitting of abrasive wheels. I think having such a large cutter is what can make a spindle a hazard but for me seeing such a cutter would make me even more cautious or is it the perception that routers are home workshop and spindles more trade.

Power feed on a moulder or saw is the best safety bit of kit, but they're usually a spendy add.
I've always considered the moulder the top of the finger/hand eating chain, and the RAS next in line, in fact the RAS scares me a bit, especially the old big wadkin one. Not that im scared of using it, and in that respect ive used one for years, its just the way it operates and anything at all comes into contact with the leading edge of the blade is cut off in an instant, no other operation needed, its pretty much going to be an automatic amputator

This got me when i was younger, doing an engineering course aged 16 or so.
I was really lucky and only ended up with 24 stitches.
Hence my near religious rants about machine safety. It happens in an instant, and I still consider myself extremely lucky it i didnt lose half my hand.


One of the overlooked issues with the big routers is the weight is at the top, and the handles on each side about the middle. The machine has a natural inclination to flip over because of that top heavy design. So I always keep a tight grip of it when lifting it off a workpiece.

 

[johnnyb]

i used a shaper at 16 and it gave me nightmares. what gave me the yips was exploding wheels surface grinding. only happened occasionally but really scared me. II spent 12 months in apprentice training and only 2 accidents. one was a finger in a screw thread(leveling jack) on the little polishing lathe the other was a spinning leg on a pair of calipers the hole being polished on the lathe( few stitches)

 

[Doug71]

There are plenty of smaller spindle moulders around which aren't so scary and are no bigger than a router table.

I can never understand why someone would spend £2K on a router table set up when things like this are available.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225449091556?hash=item347dd021e4:g:XEAAAOSwEp1jvHnZ

 

[cowtown_eric]

I've had maybe 3 shapers in my lifetime, and finally gave up on them.

Why?
cutters , while available, are not easily so.
Cannot be easily transported to worksites
custom ground cutters are mega$$

What I opted for...
A large router.....Why?
much more conducive to site work
Plethora of easily available bit profiles
Custom grinds easier to obtain
lower shop footprint

Bottom line, much more economical for my needs

Eric in the colonies

 

[Jar944]

I would go with a spindle moulder over a router table every time, though I don't really like them much without a power feeder.

 

[Corset]

i have a spindle moulder (hammer combination machine) and a router table and i used to have a kity 623 with a sliding table. In order of preference i really like the kity 1st as it was small easy to set up and i never felt like i needed a power feed. It was smoother than a router table and while i was doing up my house it was easier to have that set up and leave the table saw as was. Then 2nd preference was the hammer but i found that i am forgetfull and forget to cut a piece of wood that then means i have to take all the settings down take down pwer feed etc. If i have to use a use the router tabel which is nosiy dusty and needs multiple cuts. However space considerations means i got rid of the kity. Which i regret now i have an extra garage to put stuff in. So for me a i think a little spindle moulder is best ...

 

[mark w]

80mm height, optional bearing and replaceable cutters for less than the router cutter,



What do these limiters do anyone?

They stop you taking too deep a cut, keeping it safe.

 

[deema]

They stop you taking too deep a cut, keeping it safe.

Almost, they limit the cut depth for each cut. That’s different to total depth of cut. Router cutters have limiters on their cutters for the same reason. Both spindle cutters and router cutters have the same cutter projection.

 

[mark w]

I bought one of these JET - JWS - 34 - Woodworking shaper. from Axminster a few years ago, spindle moulder that takes router cutters as well.

 

[baldkev]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19565554...edphw2AQXC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Rob_H]

Thank you all - really appreciate everyone's input - and love the debate the question started.....

 

[Yojevol]

Anyone want a bargain excellent spindle moulder.
I'd be very suspicious of this one

 

[rogxwhit]

I'd be very suspicious of this one

Why??? Looks good to me.