Should I bin my old stanley chisels and buy softer steel chisels

[RobNichols]

It is amusing that we all find so much to write about sharpening ... and why should I miss out on another chance:

I think sharpening is easy. That may be because I've done quite a lot of it now - I use hand tools, so it's an essential part of the process. But it is just flattening two surfaces!

There are a lot of ways of doing it, but most of them work. People pick the process and mediums that work best for them and that's fine, but I don't think there's a standout process that's better than any other .... we're just flattening two surfaces.

The lessons that influence my choices:

• Diamond stones work and are the least hassle and I can afford to buy them.
• Scrap leather is cheap and making a strop is easy ... and stropping completes the sharpening process nicely - OK it means you get a nice mirror finish which looks great - I'm not convinced it makes a lot of diffence to the process of cutting the wood, but I like the nice shiny result so I strop.
• The precise angle isn't important - somewhere around 25-30 degrees is fine. That you sharpen a little and often is more important. Jigs most of the time just add faff. Do it by hand and get back to the wood cutting.
• However, there is one main exception - narrow chisels (and similar narrow blades). Narrow being less than 1/4". It is hard to sharpen them and keep them square without a jig. It is also hard to find a jig that will hold a narrow chisel well. So most of my quest for sharpening jigs has centred around finding one that works well with narrow chisels. I don't use a jig every time I sharpen a narrow chisel, but find I need to every third or so sharpen to maintain a square edge.
• Secondary bevels just make it harder to maintain an angle over repeated sharpenings. Sharpening the main bevel results in a large reference surface to return to each time. I also like a hollow grind for the same reason - an easy to feel reference surface that is easy to maintain over repeated sharpening.
• Automotive window cleaner works fine as a cleaning/lubricating medium on diamond plates ... but it's a little inconsistent in its ability to keep rust at bay. So I use HoneRite as I feel I can rely on it to keep rust at bay.

As you may see - a lot of my choices are to reduce hassle and simplify the process.

And for the curious:

• I usually use two hands to sharpen - but mainly because I think it makes it easier to keep everything square with two hands rather than me being afraid of damaging the loose hand. Free handing narrow chisels - I may only use one hand!!!!!!!. I'm a little ampidextrous, so don't really have a preferred hand.
• I tend to stand on both legs while sharpening - but may stand on one leg to sharpen to spice things up a little - I like to live on the edge (don't forgive the pun).
• No pieces of A4 paper or body hair are sacrificed in my sharpening process.
• I sharpen East to West, but used to sharpen South to North when my sharpen station was on a different bench in my garage. I didn't perceive any difference in the quality of my sharpening.
• I listen to podcasts while I sharpen. The edge is much better than when I listen to Radio 4 ... honest.

 

[Jacob]

Paul Sellers demos are good but I'd use oil instead. He has no probs with the convex bevel, which makes life a lot easier - it's difficult to freehand a flat bevel and anyway there's no particular need. Get rid of all that primary/secondary/micro-bevel nonsense, in one stroke!
Some comments here:
......"from the comments it sounds like some folks are trying to freehand some fairly flat bevels which doesn’t seem to be the implied technique here. This method you end up very intentionally with a convex camber from say around 30 degrees arching back to something like 25. (The opposite of a hollow grind). There’s no real regrinding step as you are working the whole camber each time you sharpen. This camber is what makes this method work as you are not fighting your body trying to maintain a perfect single angle to the plate."

It also allows you to put in more effort and speeds things up.
The point about speed is that it makes "a little and often" more practical, which means you have your chisels and planes sharper for more of the time instead of putting it off!

 

[Trafalgar]

I think it is in an old Bernard Jones volume that contained the following sentence in regard to what to use to roll a burr on a scraper - "the back of a chisel found too hard for its intended use can be used..." (or words to that effect).

 

[Jameshow]

The whole anti-jig thing is clearly elitist claptrap, 99% of it from amateurs.


RoadCC, STW or RetroBike ?

I'll hazard a guess its RoadCC, as on STW they argue more about politics and retrobike its whether cantis or discs are better

Cyclechat most likely.. or older cycle forum!

 

[Sgian Dubh]

The Op hasn't been around for the last 3 or 4 days. It isn't all that important to him so why does this rehash of past threads saying exactly the same thing compel so many to keep on?

Maybe the op started the thread simply to get an argument going.

Anyway, it's all got tedious enough that I am persuaded that my only contribution ever to sharpening threads is a reposting of this hoary old chestnut. Slainte.

 

[Jacob]

Maybe the op started the thread simply to get an argument going.

I guess just new to the job, hence a regular sort of enquiry. They turn up all the time, having to wade through floods of misinformation, not to mention the pages of gadgets for sale!

Anyway, it's all got tedious enough that I am persuaded that my only contribution ever to sharpening threads is a reposting of this hoary old chestnut. Slainte.

I'd forgotten about stropping on the palm of my hand! I often do it anyway as a sort of reflex. I probably picked it up from your hoary old chestnut post. Thanks for that!

 

[RobNichols]

Maybe the op started the thread simply to get an argument going.

People would do such a thing!!! The cad.

 

[Bingy man]

As I said 2 separate sections for sharpening- freehand in the left corner and jigs and other methods in the right - seconds out round 1

 

[Eshmiel]

• I usually use two hands to sharpen - but mainly because I think it makes it easier to keep everything square with two hands rather than me being afraid of damaging the loose hand. Free handing narrow chisels - I may only use one hand!!!!!!!. I'm a little ampidextrous, so don't really have a preferred hand.
• I tend to stand on both legs while sharpening - but may stand on one leg to sharpen to spice things up a little - I like to live on the edge (don't forgive the pun).
• No pieces of A4 paper or body hair are sacrificed in my sharpening process.
• I sharpen East to West, but used to sharpen South to North when my sharpen station was on a different bench in my garage. I didn't perceive any difference in the quality of my sharpening.
• I listen to podcasts while I sharpen. The edge is much better than when I listen to Radio 4 ... honest.

Ampidextrius - does this mean you are robot-man who can run on both 110V and 220V? I have often wondered whether I should go Gleisner.

If one can sharpen whilst standing on one leg, this proves that the brain rot has probably not yet begun. On the other hand, if you somehow slice your grasper when so-sharpening, this finding may have to be revised.

Those who shave themselves with chisels are definitely in need of testing to see if they're now in need of a perch in the local gimmery, where "nurses" will "look after them" and feed them their gruel as they try to puzzle out (unsuccessfully) where they are and why. A fate I dread, along with blud-loss, so I don't shave meself - anywhere or with anything in case my degradation in the heed is found out.

Any fule no that sharpening with the ley lines produces much better edges. Oh yes it does!

Podcasts can be fatal to the opinions, supplanting useful ones with ..... that stuff that's everywhere now. Radio 3 is the correct programme for the shed listening. Some of the stranger hoots, blares and pugle-noises can induce a new and interesting design-thought.

 

[Eshmiel]

Maybe the op started the thread simply to get an argument going.

Anyway, it's all got tedious enough that I am persuaded that my only contribution ever to sharpening threads is a reposting of this hoary old chestnut. Slainte.

Strewfthuh! That is very hoary. I believe your chestnut be spalted now to the point of punkiness!

When's your birfday? I might buy you a Veritas honing gubbin or even a whole Tormek, for your personal enlightenment and conversion or even a new Damacene moment. (No I won't).

 

[RobNichols]

Radio 3 is the correct programme for the shed listening.

But what if they played Vaughan Williams' Lark assending! All thoughts of sharpening would leave my head and I'd be bound to slice through an appendage.

 

[JSW]

But what if they played Vaughan Williams' Lark assending!

Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis if you please, far superior to Lark Ascending

I'd forgotten about stropping on the palm of my hand!

That's how I was taught, and still do to this day

 

[RobNichols]

Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis if you please, far superior to Lark Ascending

God you're right. And then there's Britten's Variations on a Theme of Frank Bridge. Radio 3 would just be a minefield of distraction.

 

[JSW]

Enough of this sharpening malarkey, let's have some music for the soul



(There's some stunning workmanship on display also)

 

[robgul]

Cyclechat most likely.. or older cycle forum!

I think it's the CTC* forum that tops the action on helmets!

*the charity that's called CyclingUK - that lost many real members with the change to charity and chasing funding projects to pay the salaries

 

[Phil Pascoe]

But what if they played Vaughan Williams' Lark assending! All thoughts of sharpening would leave my head and I'd be bound to slice through an appendage.

The thought of having to listen to the Lark Ascending is enough to make me want to slice through someone else's.

 

[AJBaker]

Paul Sellers demos are good but I'd use oil instead. He has no probs with the convex bevel, which makes life a lot easier - it's difficult to freehand a flat bevel and anyway there's no particular need. [...]

I like having a convex bevel, it works just fine and I quickly get my tools get hair splittingly sharp.

That said, when I have time, I also like occasionally using a jig on a rough diamond plate to flatten the bevel and get more clearance. Plus, although I can more or less keep the edge square freehand, I find that the bevel becomes a bit asymetrical after a while (I tend to press down slightly harder on the left side). The jig is a nice way to restore something like a straight 'factory bevel' with good clearance.

Others might use a grinder for this job, but I get by with a jig and diamond stone.

 

[RobNichols]

I like having a convex bevel, it works just fine and I quickly get my tools get hair splittingly sharp.

I think to some extent you'll always get some convexity when you sharpen by hand.

The problem I found is that I have a tendancy to increase the convexity on each sharpen - particularly when I was trying to create a secondary bevel. It was sort of "feel for the flat, then up a bit for the secondary" but the convexity meant that the flat moved a little with each sharpen, so the "up a bit" would be a little higher each time. I'd end up with too much of a convex top with a cutting edge much higher than 30 degrees, and I'd have to grind it back fairly regularly.

The problem went away when I stopped trying to cut a secondary bevel. When I just concentrate on maintaining a single bevel, I find it much easier to feel the bevel and stick to it.

Now I only have to grind if I damage the blade or I get too far out of square to fix with a coarse stone.

On reflection I'm probably pretty close to the Paul Sellers technique - I've a main bevel with a little convexity due to hand honing (so a cutting edge a tadge steeper than most of the bevel) instead of a classic secondary bevel.

 

[BentonTool]

It is amusing that we all find so much to write about sharpening ... and why should I miss out on another chance:

I think sharpening is easy. That may be because I've done quite a lot of it now - I use hand tools, so it's an essential part of the process. But it is just flattening two surfaces!

There are a lot of ways of doing it, but most of them work. People pick the process and mediums that work best for them and that's fine, but I don't think there's a standout process that's better than any other .... we're just flattening two surfaces.

The lessons that influence my choices:

• Diamond stones work and are the least hassle and I can afford to buy them.
• Scrap leather is cheap and making a strop is easy ... and stropping completes the sharpening process nicely - OK it means you get a nice mirror finish which looks great - I'm not convinced it makes a lot of diffence to the process of cutting the wood, but I like the nice shiny result so I strop.
• The precise angle isn't important - somewhere around 25-30 degrees is fine. That you sharpen a little and often is more important. Jigs most of the time just add faff. Do it by hand and get back to the wood cutting.
• However, there is one main exception - narrow chisels (and similar narrow blades). Narrow being less than 1/4". It is hard to sharpen them and keep them square without a jig. It is also hard to find a jig that will hold a narrow chisel well. So most of my quest for sharpening jigs has centred around finding one that works well with narrow chisels. I don't use a jig every time I sharpen a narrow chisel, but find I need to every third or so sharpen to maintain a square edge.
• Secondary bevels just make it harder to maintain an angle over repeated sharpenings. Sharpening the main bevel results in a large reference surface to return to each time. I also like a hollow grind for the same reason - an easy to feel reference surface that is easy to maintain over repeated sharpening.
• Automotive window cleaner works fine as a cleaning/lubricating medium on diamond plates ... but it's a little inconsistent in its ability to keep rust at bay. So I use HoneRite as I feel I can rely on it to keep rust at bay.

As you may see - a lot of my choices are to reduce hassle and simplify the process.

And for the curious:

• I usually use two hands to sharpen - but mainly because I think it makes it easier to keep everything square with two hands rather than me being afraid of damaging the loose hand. Free handing narrow chisels - I may only use one hand!!!!!!!. I'm a little ampidextrous, so don't really have a preferred hand.
• I tend to stand on both legs while sharpening - but may stand on one leg to sharpen to spice things up a little - I like to live on the edge (don't forgive the pun).
• No pieces of A4 paper or body hair are sacrificed in my sharpening process.
• I sharpen East to West, but used to sharpen South to North when my sharpen station was on a different bench in my garage. I didn't perceive any difference in the quality of my sharpening.
• I listen to podcasts while I sharpen. The edge is much better than when I listen to Radio 4 ... honest.

My go-to cleaning/lubricating medium of late has been a mix of 1/2 Simple Green® (or similar) and 1/2 water. Cheap & works very well; slick, lubes well, and cleans extraordinarily well. It raises embedded metal in both diamond and ceramic with little effort.
I have been using this tonic for about six months and have had absolutely no rust forming in my cold and damp shop. I found this concoction somewhere on the net. Can't recall where...

 

[Jacob]

I think to some extent you'll always get some convexity when you sharpen by hand.

The problem I found is that I have a tendancy to increase the convexity on each sharpen - particularly when I was trying to create a secondary bevel. It was sort of "feel for the flat, then up a bit for the secondary" ...

I hold the blade on the stone at 30º as near as possible, thrust forwards and dip slightly, to avoid rounding over. I call this "rounding under".
It allows you to put max force and speed into it.
Dead simple really. Just one slightly convex bevel with an edge at 30º