Sheffield Steel chisels or brut de forge

[Cheshirechappie]

Hello Sebinho, and welcome to the forum!

I've looked up AISI 5160 steel. It's a 0.6% carbon steel with a little silicon and about 1% chromium added, used for spring-making. I suspect that HRC 58 may be a little too soft for a lasting chisel edge. Most European and North American chisels have traditionally been made from a steel having nearer 1% carbon content, giving a hardness nearer HRC 60-61, after tempering. However, try the knife - it may turn out to be perfectly adequate, even if it isn't perfect.

If the knife-maker is prepared to source some AISI 1095 (basically a 1% carbon spring steel) or AISI 52100 (very similar chemical composition, but used mainly for making ball bearing housings and rolling elements) I think chisels would give a better, longer lasting edge.

On balance, I think you may be better buying the commercially available chisels. Start with the locally made ones; they will probably turn out to be perfectly good. If not, then try looking for some Marples, Footprint or similar imported make.

Good luck, and enjoy your woodworking!

 

[sebinho]

Thanks Mignal, Sawyer, Ed65 and Cheshirechappie.

The knife I ordered was this one in the middle:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-j_oR-kMNpS0/ ... 122840.jpg

I was thinking of using this as a general carving tool and use scalpels for any finer cutting. The curved knives are interesting and act like gouges but look difficult to sharpen. Mignal, are gouges necessary for ukuleles etc.? One day I hope to make violin and I know they require them, but i'll leave gouges until then if possible. I'll think about the short narrow chisel you recommend as I get further into this, thanks.

Cheshirechappie, since I'm likely now to buy less chisels than I originally thought, I think I'll go for the Marples, as then I'll be sure of the quality - and I'm pretty certain the sellers of the sets I've encountered will sell individual chisels.

All the best,

 

[MIGNAL]

No, gouges aren't necessary, not at all. They certainly are for violin making though.

 

[sebinho]

If I can squeeze in one more vaguely related question in this thread? :

It's about scrapers. I can buy a very old US stanley #80 scraper with blade for R$90. I've been told that this is too big for ukuleles as well. To buy a new card scraper here however is actually more expensive (around R$140 - believe it or not), so I wonder if I can use the stanley blade in my hands where necessary. Would this work or are the blades too stiff?

Another option perhaps would be to buy a cheap wood saw like this for R$39 (there may be cheaper ones) and cut off pieces with a hacksaw and finish with a file:

http://www.leroymerlin.com.br/serrote-d ... 8701d58cff

I have a hacksaw at least and a file somewhere. Would this too be OK?

thanks for your help everyone!

 

[MIGNAL]

The No. 80 too big for Ukuleles? You can use the blade in your hand, although you'll probably have to put a slight camber on it.
You can use saw steel for scrapers. I made a few out of old Zona saws and a cheap gents saw.

 

[sebinho]

so sorry, is the wood saw in the link I posted not right for the job? Does it need to be finer like from a zona saw?

 

[AJB Temple]

Mignal. This may amuse you. When I fist started making electric guitars aged 16 or 17 I had hardly any tools. I used to cut out cavities for installing pots and pickups by drilling out lots of holes, (depth stop was tape around a hand drill) and then chiseling out the waste. I had 4 Footprint chisels my dad gave me 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and 1" and I still have them and use them. Eventually I made enough money to afford a router. That was possibly the last time I used chisels to make anything on guitars apart from some paring.

OP: I do have some fancy chisels now, but the ancient Footprints are still fine. Fancy tools may feel a bit nicer, may hold an edge a bit better, but the end result is just the same. The craftsman is more important than the tool.

 

[profchris]

OK. I'll consider getting something cheap - I may buy from a shop rather than online and see if someone can recommend something reasonably OK for wood. I've already done some reading on sharpening. Mignal or other luthiers, can you suggest a good range of chisel sizes for small instruments like ukuleles? This is what I want to start on. I was thinking of 1/4" 1/2" 3/4 and 1". You don't use chisels for roughing out necks?

1", 1/2" . . . I'm struggling. I'm not even sure a 1/2" is necessary. You might want a very short stubby chisel for lining pockets. Don't really use them for necks.

Hey, don't knock the bigger chisels! I have an old 1 1/4 inch which gets lost of use making ukuleles. It's definitely my go to neck carving chisel (I use chisels and cabinet scraper primarily) because, for me, the extra width seems to help me carve along curved surfaces more precisely than using a thinner chisel. I know only a little of the blade width is actually being used, but the overhang either side (e.g. when working along the neck) really seems to help me.

 

[profchris]

Oh, and I've used a no 80 scraper for thinning ukulele plates and sides. Works fine once you've sorted out how to clamp the workpiece. Now I'm better at planing I prefer to thin by planing at 45 degrees or so to the grain, but the no 80 was invaluable before I learnt how to do this.

 

[MIGNAL]

Mignal. This may amuse you. When I fist started making electric guitars aged 16 or 17 I had hardly any tools. I used to cut out cavities for installing pots and pickups by drilling out lots of holes, (depth stop was tape around a hand drill) and then chiseling out the waste. I had 4 Footprint chisels my dad gave me 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and 1" and I still have them and use them. Eventually I made enough money to afford a router. That was possibly the last time I used chisels to make anything on guitars apart from some paring.

OP: I do have some fancy chisels now, but the ancient Footprints are still fine. Fancy tools may feel a bit nicer, may hold an edge a bit better, but the end result is just the same. The craftsman is more important than the tool.

That's a very familiar story. I made my first acoustic whilst I was still at school. Done after school had finished, supervised by a woodworker teacher who gave up his time without pay. Of course it was a pretty well equipped workshop.
I made my second a couple of years later in a room not bigger than 4 ft x 8 ft, some sort of kitchen table. I was completely skint. Very little money for tools. I had one plastic handled Stanley 5.5 plane. Somehow I heard of a toothed blade to help with tearout. I took a triangular needle file and put little grooves in a spare Stanley blade. It completely knackered the file but amazingly I had a toothed blade that worked. Everything was like that. One Oil stone and a bit of leather. Nothing finer than 600 or perhaps 800G. A little removable table top vice that someone gave me. Rusty old file. A sliding bevel that didn't slide. The rebate cut with a cutting gauge, the back of it rounded to negotiate the waist. It came together though. The amount of kit available now is staggeringly huge compared to back then. I'm referring to just the general woodworking tools, the specialist stuff is on another planet. Then you look at the really good work that was done in the 17th and 18 th centuries and you realise it's not about how rich and well equipped you are. It's about the skill with a few basic tools, a bit of string, a few wooden wedges and a few twigs that act as clamps.
One day I might try to recreate those early conditions and the paucity of tools, just for the exercise. I'm not even sure I'm still capable of making an instrument in that manner. It was all so different, with youth and mountains of enthusiasm on side. I'd probably quickly lose faith and reach for the latest tool catalogue to solve a miniscule mishap.

 

[D_W]

Your story sounds like the stories George Wilson tells of trying to make guitars (and I'm sure he did make some) as a kid. He said he had a coarse sharpening stone, newspaper (to strop) and a block plane and that was about it other than portable power tools that he begged time on (he mentioned having to beg time on a borrowed corded drill).

He's also always quick to point out when people complain about import power tools that the hobbyist tools for people in the 1950s were junk, and not cheap.

 

[bridger]

Pretty much any saw steel will make excellent scrapers. Get a worn out saw for as cheap as you can and cut it up. One normal size handsaw will yield several card scrapers for flat work, plus many odd shaped bits for the various shapes needed for luthiere.

 

[ED65]

I certainly wouldn't spend a lot of money on a scraper if your intention is just to use it for smoothing. I understand that for thinner wood as used in lutherie that scraping can be used for final thicknessing, and for this a scraper plane may be advisable, but if you just need the function of a basic card scraper then it's amazing what you can do it with.

Would this work or are the blades too stiff?

There isn't really a too stiff for scrapers because not all are intended to be flexed in use.

Another option perhaps would be to buy a cheap wood saw like this for R$39 (there may be cheaper ones) and cut off pieces with a hacksaw and finish with a file:

Yes that is an option. I seem to recall a thread on here from a couple of years ago where one of the members bought the cheapest saw available (approximately R$6!) to see if it was at all usable and ended up cutting it into pieces for use as scrapers. The steel on saw blades is not hard by the standards of conventional cutting tools, often somewhere in the mid or upper 30s which I think is as soft as tool steel can get, but this is the traditional material for scrapers so as soft as that seems it will work.

When cutting the saw blade down using a hacksaw, an old tip you might appreciate for cutting very thin steel plate is to sandwich it in between two pieces of wood and clamp them or squeeze in the vice firmly. This helps support the blade and reduces vibration, making the cutting safer and your ears will thank you!

 

[D_W]

There are often ground spring steel tools in the stone, tile and drywall areas in hardware stores. Those would be a better starting point to make scrapers, as they're made of stiff steel and already ground - and with no rust.

 

[profchris]

Thinking back, I made my first soprano ukulele using only the following:

Japanese pull saw (a basic unbacked saw which cut fret slots and everything else)

Block plane

1/4 and 1/2 inch chisel

Drill

Sandpaper and blocks (using a piece of broom handle as a block for curves)

Hammer and side cutters (flush) for fretting

I don't use a lot more than that now - for a complete hand tool set I'd add in a half round engineer's file, a no 3 or 4 plane, a coping saw, card scraper, diamond stone (fret levelling and sharpening).

Of course, I have in fact collected more planes and chisels (the 1/8 gets a lot of use), a tiny drawknife with a blade less than an inch deep, several more saws, etc, etc.

Soprano ukes are really tiny - top and back plates are about 220 x 160 mm, half that if bookmatched. The shaft of the neck to be carved is maybe 125 mm long. Tools like a standard sized spokeshave or drawknife are too big to be useful.

I wouldn't worry about the ideal tool set. If you have a saw, plane and chisel you can make a start, and buy the next tool when you find you need it.

 

[MIGNAL]

Years ago I bought a brilliant rasp from Touchstone. It was one of the Chinese swordfish type rasps, very cheap. Clearly hand stitched. It would be ideal for Ukulele necks. I still have the rasp but it's pretty blunt, it saw a lot of use. I tried to find it again but without success. Touchstone no longer do it, none of the rasps from Fine Tools are the same, even though they look very similar. It's very fine toothed, pointy and the last 2" of the rasp can be bent a little, almost turns it into a specialist riffler. It really suited the transition from the heel to neck or the head to the neck.

 

[profchris]

Years ago I bought a brilliant rasp from Touchstone. It was one of the Chinese swordfish type rasps, very cheap. Clearly hand stitched. It would be ideal for Ukulele necks. I still have the rasp but it's pretty blunt, it saw a lot of use. I tried to find it again but without success. Touchstone no longer do it, none of the rasps from Fine Tools are the same, even though they look very similar. It's very fine toothed, pointy and the last 2" of the rasp can be bent a little, almost turns it into a specialist riffler. It really suited the transition from the heel to neck or the head to the neck.

Damn you Mignal! I thought how useful such a rasp might be, and this was the closest I could find so I ordered it.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3PCS...le-Pointed-Rasp-File-Set-DIY/32483655654.html

The pictures don't look like hand stitching, but making 6 necks a year these might still see me out (if they cut at all).

 

[MIGNAL]

I can't say I've seen the gold type before.
This is the one, in the foreground. The one in the background is commonly available or at least it was until recently.
It's very fine stitching, done in an arc going across the width of the rasp.