Sharpening

[MikeW]

...finally re the plough, sitting here with the wallets i got and inside are a stanley part number 12-390 1 1/2 things, plus about 4 different sized 1/8th, 1/2 beading type cutters with the slot in the side at one end which moves the cutter up and down my plough.

i understand why people have them on the shelf, but don't use, but surely sometimes you want a little less dust and noise??

thanks again,
paul

Hi Paul,

This sounds like one of the newer Stanley plough planes, maybe the 12-030, 12-052 or the 12-250.

There are probably more frustrated ex-users of combination and or metal plough planes than we can both count. That said, I do use my 55 and Sargent 1080PB for certain tasks. As with any hand tool, the sound of cutting wood is definitely better than the alternative--just not always practical for everyone.

You will find that for anything other than cutting grooves or rebates that it takes very well behaved wood to have it perform well. I try to use only vertical grain poplar or douglas fir (well, cherry too) whenever I have to cut profiles.

I have cut white oak very acceptably, but it too was cvg.

Have fun,

 

[Philly]

Paul
Right-think I got it!
Did you buy the nagura stone to go with your poilishing waterstone?? A dinky little one?
Thats what you need-when using the very fine waterstones you wet the suface and rub the nagura over the surface a few times to make a slurry (this also removes any glazing or grey scum remaining!!!) This gives a bit of lubrication to the blade when sharpenening and also (I believe) gives a finer polish.
Here's a nagura from Axminster..
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... 9&recno=12

Pretty sure this will solve your problem!
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Alf]

finally re the plough, sitting here with the wallets i got and inside are a stanley part number 12-390 1 1/2 things,

Ah, one of the later ones. I really need to sort out which of those model numbers equates to what - the older ones I've got sussed. It's not the one with a rear handle like a joke dog cowpat is it...? :?

i understand why people have them on the shelf, but don't use, but surely sometimes you want a little less dust and noise??

Gosh, I don't understand it at all. I use mine often. I'm just a hopeless sucker for them.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

OK, that's clear enough. Any opinions on Shapton stones, apart from the price? Give up waterstones, messy, too much space etc, but willing to go back to them if best option. What are your current sharpening regimes?

Noel

DMT dual stone. Medium followed by fine if lots of work required on a new blade, if just re-sharpening after ues, then fine side only.
Move on to 1000 grit water stone for about a dozen strokes and then 6000 waterstone for 30 storkes and I get a perfect mirror finish on the (very) sharp edge.

 

[bugbear]

D'you take the blade to the abrasive, or the abrasive to the blade? Just w'ndrin'.

Err. Abrasive to the stone. If the abrasive were fixed, it wouldn't matter how long the dowel was...

BugBear

 

[Alf]

D'you take the blade to the abrasive, or the abrasive to the blade? Just w'ndrin'.

Err. Abrasive to the stone. If the abrasive were fixed, it wouldn't matter how long the dowel was...

Well it would, but I see what you mean. That is if you mean abrasive to the blade. If it's abrasive to stone then we're at hopeless cross-purposes... :wink: (I know, I keep doing that to you. I'm sorry. )

Cheers, Alf

 

[Mike B]

Hi

Several promising mentions here of Shapton stones - are they available from somewhere "our" side of the pond or is this another case of order direct and suffer the double whammy of shipping and C&E...

Mike

 

[engineer one]

yes guys do have a nagura and i am still not sure it gives me the answer i think i want, but will investigate further from a position of knowledge, not guess work.

still interested to know whether anyone has an idea for sharpening older chisels etc, or even cheap ones where you are not sure that the sides are at right angles to the cutting face, indeed some modern names seem to suffer from this too. as i said how do you use the various tormek jigs and get it right if the side is not square??

ref the plough it is a 12-052, but i also acquired the body of a 93, sadly without the box or the blades and extras anyone got a manual i can copy??

final thought on flattening with the new veritas bench planes, do you flatten with the bailey insert in or out?? surely leaving it in will cause problems later,it is bad enough with the moveable front on a lie neilson low angle plane, but this veritas 4 1/2, well i do not know for sure.

thanks again for the help so far, learnt a lot quickly. mind you cannot buy 19 mm float glass in my part of west london!!!!!!!!!!!

paul

 

[Midnight]

as i said how do you use the various tormek jigs and get it right if the side is not square??

tromek..???? jigs...???? whazzat then..???

Veritas Mk1 jig, some waterstones and a little patience...

 

[MikeW]

...still interested to know whether anyone has an idea for sharpening older chisels etc, or even cheap ones where you are not sure that the sides are at right angles to the cutting face, indeed some modern names seem to suffer from this too. as i said how do you use the various tormek jigs and get it right if the side is not square??

Paul, you would use the SV-60 jig which is the one for plane blades. You will need to square chisels or plane blades by eye if the sides are not parallel--but you can do this. It isn't hard. After you begin, you can remove the jig from the Tormek and check that you have the chisel face square to the stone by how it is removing steel.

If you do not have the manual you can download one from the torek.com web site.

...ref the plough it is a 12-052, but i also acquired the body of a 93, sadly without the box or the blades and extras anyone got a manual i can copy??

Stanley still makes replacement blades for the 93. Go to stanleytools.com and then to the planes section. It's on page 3 of the plane section I think. As for instructions, add the blade and I think you can figure it out. Just adjust the blade until you can barely feel it at the opening, try cutting a piece of scrap wood. Adjust for a deeper or light cut from there.

You can both adjust the mouth opening as well as remove the top/front to make it a bullnose plane.

Take care,

 

[Alf]

final thought on flattening with the new veritas bench planes, do you flatten with the bailey insert in or out??

¿qué? Not following you at all. :?

Cheers, Alf

 

[engineer one]

sorry alf, must learn more about these damn things.
when you look at the sole of my 4 1/2 veritas, which is new
the frog, which i understand is a bailey type,? comes through
the sole near the mouth, so the question is whne you
flatten the sole, do you leave this bit in or not, is that
any clearer??( i know mud )

i am asking because although logic says with it in, one is worried
about abrasive getting into the join and mucking it up later.

thanks mike, will try the 60 jig which i have, and see again,
i have been using it and assuming that if i have the sides square to the
base, then the edge will also be square, but since on some tools the
two sides are not parallel, this does not appear to be the case.
i assume that the flat surface on the tormek jig is supposed to be
at right angles to the locating pieces within the jig near the tightening screws, so one could ensure that an edge was parallel to that.

finally, i have both dmt and water stones, but since i am working my way through a lot of cutting edges, getting them into shape, i decided to
make part of my life easier, so i bought the tormek. i realise to some that is a crime, but "sh** " there are more things in life than sharpening, like actually finishing the furniture or items designed.

have a good holiday weekend
paul :lol:

 

[MikeW]

Hi Paul,

You need to leave the plane assembled, including having the blade and the cap tight but make sure to retract it so the abrasize doesn't touch the edge .

The reason is that the whole sole of the plane needs to be flattened together else the lower portion of the frog which comprises part of the sole would otherwise stick out below the rest of the sole.

You "need" to have the blade in and tightened as normal (but raised up) so that the tension upon the frog is the same as when in use. The word need is in quotes because while this is recommended practice I have flattened soles vefore without the blade in a plane and not measured any difference.

After you are finished flattening any plane's sole, it is a good idea to disassemble and clean it, as well as lightly oil the moving parts.

Hope this helps. Have fun,

 

[Alf]

Ah, right, Paul. I get it, and Mike has it covered. Although does the sole actually need flattening? I mean go ahead if you fancy to, but be careful you don't do more harm than good, that's all. I tend to err on the side of caution and never flatten anything unless I have to. Or is that erring on the side of laziness...? :-k Oh, and it's not a Bailey frog, just for future info. Dunno what you'd call it really. Weird? :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[MikeW]

Alf, my LV #6 needed it. The bottom of the frog (they do call it that, just not the Bailey part) was a couple thousands proud. So with the blade adjusted for a cut you could actually feel the teeter-toter effect.

My other LV planes (4 1/2, LA smoother) both had soles flatter than I can probably (care) to make a plane's sole.

So Paul, Alf brings up a good point. Make sure the sole needs it before you even bother.

 

[engineer one]

thanks mike and alf, appreciate the input, so maybe the next question is how flat is flat and what do you need ?
i appreciate dc's work etc, but it does seem to be over gilding the lily,
what is an acceptable flattness, and what is a quick and easy way to check, honestly do that many people still use feeler gauges, ( not sure my mechanic knows what one is).

has any one devised a quick and easy way to decide whether the
sole of your plane is acceptably flat and over what portion of the plane
should it be. seems to me that as long as it is flat for maybe 1/2 inch
front and rear and also each side of the opening this ought to do, if the rest of the sole is hollow, but obviously not if it is bowed. less friction?

what is the best type of marker to use on a base to then rub on say a piece of paper to see what is rubbed off??

know this is nit picking, but so much is written about sharpening these days you sometimes wonder when anyone actually uses the tools to cut wood!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks again
paul

 

[Midnight]

Paul...

its been my experience that if yer talkin about the likes of Stanley, Record et al... it's not a question of whether soles are out or not.... but by how much...

It's been my experience that when dealing with Lie Nielsen, Clifton or Lee Valley, they're good to go straight outa the box. If not, each of them will willingly exchange to your satisfaction...

by all means check if you like; a straight edge held against a light will do for a quick reference.. engineers blue on a sole plate will give the ultimate check...

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

i bought the tormek. i realise to some that is a crime, but "sh** " there are more things in life than sharpening

Hi Paul

Using a Tormek is not the crime - not continuing to hone on stones/paper/etc to lower micron levels after it is the crime.

has any one devised a quick and easy way to decide whether the
sole of your plane is acceptably flat and over what portion of the plane
should it be.

Just to emphasize what has already been stated - The three vital areas are the toe, the area immediately in front of the mouth (not the area beind), and the heels of the plane. When planing, the sole must register on two of these at all times.

To check on this, the quickest way is to paint those areas with engineers blue, or a waterproof marker (magic marker, or Texta, as they are called in Oz), and run the sole over a flat length of 360 grit looking for shine that denotes the high points. I do not believe a straight edge is good enough for this job, although it may afford you a sense of psychological well-being.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[MikeW]

Hi Paul,

Short of perfection (which is pretty much unattainable) flat is relative. I think Mike's (Midnight's) suggestion of just using a known straight edge against a light is sufficient.

If you have a reference "plate" to use, something as simple as a cinder block, cast iron table saw table or jointer table, you can simply place some 220 grit wet/dry paper on it and rub the sole back and forth a few times and look at the scratch pattern to see highs/lows. Then you can make a decision how much to do.

You are correct that there are critical areas, in forn, beside and behind the mouth...but it often doesn't take long to work up through 120 grit to 320 grit and simply make a consistent scrath pattern over the sole.

For me, that's flat enough.

 

[engineer one]

hi mike, thought for the night, when you checked your LV 4 1/2, was that portion of the frog which stuck through the sole actually level, or was it recessed slightly, seems on mine it is recessed!

maybe it does not need to be level???
paul :?