Sharpening for beginners

[Jacob]

You've obviously never planed a bit of interlocked grain. Or, puttering away on a piece of beech, doing well, only to have a neighbour pop in to have a bit of B&Q pine "just straightened out"...
I certainly, emphatically, would not use that same set up on mahogany as I would on box wood.

If necessary one can change the angle or set aside any particular planes or chisels if it's a regular thing.
Have done this but by and large sheer sharpness seems to be tops, helped by honing on leather, a little and often, and the magic touch of candle wax on the sole of a plane. Just a quick squiggle can transform performance - on hand saws too especially if doing a bit of hard work like ripping a thick piece down the grain.

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

when I want a really fine edge I have a piece of grey slate that I use to finish with.... gives a nice polished edge
Ideal for those difficult woods where the grain can be all over the place
Years ago I used some iroko , that I had to keep a keen edge on the tools,

 

[Amplidyne]

when I want a really fine edge I have a piece of grey slate that I use to finish with.... gives a nice polished edge
Ideal for those difficult woods where the grain can be all over the place
Years ago I used some iroko , that I had to keep a keen edge on the tools,

I've got a proper slate razor hone here amongst my various stones. It did still have the remains of the box at one time. Must be more than a century old. As you say, it gives a nice polished edge, but I'm not that keen (ha!). It's a bit slow.

 

[AJBaker]

Not much I can add, I'll just mention that in addition to Paul Sellers' videos, I found Rex Krueger has some good tutorials as well. He explains how to sharpen with a guide, and also how to sharpen freehand. He explains rather well what a burr is, and why a rounded bevel works just fine.

Here's what works for me:
- A Sharpall double sided diamond stone.
- A leather strop with a block of green compound (that fit inside the housing of the Sharpall stone, so quick and easy to transport).
- A spray bottle with car window cleaner.
- An Eclipse style honing guide.
- A belt of sandpaper from a beltsander, that conveniently fits around the Sharpall stone and its plastic housing. I add a small wedge to strech the sandpaper over the stone and that gives me an extra rough surface for lapping or grinding out a chip on the edge.

I use both freehand and the guide. I find that both work fine, though the guide is more consistent.

Looking back, a good sharpening stone is the most useful tool I own.

 

[MikeB1972]

Go on then, my tuppence.

I freehand sharpen on, well, diamond or oil stones depending on how long it was since I sharpened them last time.

For someone who hasn't sharpened before I'd recommend using a guide (Cheap one is fine), simply because it's easier to get a consistent edge each time, took me a stupidly long time for me, as a hobbyist, to get a good edge on each sharpen. It's a hobby though, so I had the time.

If you had to sharpen every day I'd recommend freehand, but for hybrid woodworkers or someone who doesn't get that many hours in a week a guide makes a lot of sense, you can always drop it later (or freehand every other sharpen etc). But, unless you really like sharpening, it simplifies things so you can get to the actual woodwork.

Strop after sharpening though (or strop often instead of using stones to touch up chisels and carving tools)

 

[Peter907]

Just wanted to say a massive thank you to @Doug B who came to my house today and sorted out my sharpening problems. I didn't know Doug previously, but he only lives a mile away and very kindly offered to help me out. I understand a lot more about sharpening now, and realise that my chisels were in quite a state, and first needed a thorough fettling with Doug's superb Tormec grinder before moving on to my diamond plates. I have gained the confidence that I can maintain a good edge on my chisels from now on with little effort, and have Amazon delivering a canvas roll bag tomorrow so I don't end up just chucking them around in a tool box and damaging the edges again. After Doug's visit, the advice in the above posts make a lot more sense to me. The YouTube sharpening videos are great, but if like me, you don't have a clue, or even a sound starting point to work from, they are not going give you "the edge".
So thanks again to Doug B and everyone else who replied to my thread.
This forum has some very knowledgeable and helpful members .
No doubt you'll find me starting another thread and asking more newbie questions soon enough .

 

[Fred48]

What a very kind and very generous thing to do @Doug B
Fred

 

[richarddownunder]

I've just bought a sharpening kit and some lapping fluid. The kit has a 400 grit diamond plate, a 1000 grit diamond plate and an 8000 grit ceramic plate. I've watched numerous YouTube videos about sharpening, and the principles explained seem perfectly straightforward, but after several hours of practice with 4 different sized chisels (30mm to 6mm) working both with and without a honing guide, I have yet to achieve the stage where I can sharpen a chisel or my penknife to a sharpness where I can shave hairs from my arm or cut a sheet of printer paper without it leaving a jagged torn edge. Any advice or thoughts would be helpful.

There are some helpful options above. To me, you have all the abrasives in your kit that you will ever need, and unless there is something wrong with them, they should provide perfectly good results. I wouldn't go buying anything else just yet. Maybe try each grit individually to begin with starting with the 400. Honing at 30 degrees using 400 grit should result in a fairly sharp tool. Wood maybe be a better test subject than hairs .

As a very part-time hobby woodworker, I usually have a flurry of making, then leave it alone for a period before the next project. Probably because of this, I have found that I get my best results using an (eclipse-type) honing guide and that is what I will stick with as it suits me and I'm never in a huge hurry. I use a fine DMT stone which is about 1200 grit and that hones to a pretty good edge in a few strokes. Then I use a 4000 grit waterstone if I want to get a good finish or I'm planing thin boards e.g. on a guitar or cutting dovetails etc.

It looks like you are trying the various option so you will get there in the end and find the best process for you. IMHO a simple honing guide doesn't add much time to the process - few seconds - and gives a reproducible result, especially if you are not in the workshop every day and is a good place to start as it'll provide a reference for the angle you are aiming for. A 30mm chisel (or a plane iron) sounds like a good tool to practice with as it'll be more stable than, say, a 6mm chisel and you will be able to see the result more easily. In the end, sharp enough is sharp enough and depends on what you are trying to achieve with wood.

Oh, just realised that all of your questions have been answered, oh well LOL.

 

[Fred48]

There are some helpful options above. To me, you have all the abrasives in your kit that you will ever need, and unless there is something wrong with them, they should provide perfectly good results. I wouldn't go buying anything else just yet. Maybe try each grit individually to begin with starting with the 400. Honing at 30 degrees using 400 grit should result in a fairly sharp tool. Wood maybe be a better test subject than hairs .

As a very part-time hobby woodworker, I usually have a flurry of making, then leave it alone for a period before the next project. Probably because of this, I have found that I get my best results using an (eclipse-type) honing guide and that is what I will stick with as it suits me and I'm never in a huge hurry. I use a fine DMT stone which is about 1200 grit and that hones to a pretty good edge in a few strokes. Then I use a 4000 grit waterstone if I want to get a good finish or I'm planing thin boards e.g. on a guitar or cutting dovetails etc.

It looks like you are trying the various option so you will get there in the end and find the best process for you. IMHO a simple honing guide doesn't add much time to the process - few seconds - and gives a reproducible result, especially if you are not in the workshop every day and is a good place to start as it'll provide a reference for the angle you are aiming for. A 30mm chisel (or a plane iron) sounds like a good tool to practice with as it'll be more stable than, say, a 6mm chisel and you will be able to see the result more easily. In the end, sharp enough is sharp enough and depends on what you are trying to achieve with wood.

Oh, just realised that all of your questions have been answered, oh well LOL.

I think that's excellent advice. As a fan and student of the late David Charlesworth this method will work every time. My personal preference is the Veritas honing guide.
Fred

 

[Chris West]

Talking of burrs
I have been repeatedly told that scrapers have to have a burr.
This goes against everything I know about sharpening
Is there anyone out there care to explaine this

This is definitely correct. A scraper is just that, it is meant to scrape rather than cut like a chisel or a plane. With a fresh burr a scraper will cut across a surface like a miniscule blade, producing an incredibly fine shaving just a few thousands of an inch thick. A properly sharpened scraper is a very handy tool. In many cases, it leaves a better finish than sanding and it can get into places where a plane won't go and/or at angles that won't cause tear out. An essential and Inexpensive tool that makes fast work of smoothing surfaces to a fine standard.

 

[Chris West]

I was taught that the key to getting a sharp edge is to maintain a constant angle while sharpening. In this way, you produce a sharp angle rather than a rounded corner. I too like the veritas honing guide for helping maintain this constant angle. I would add that an indelible marker is also an essential sharpening tool. Draw a line along the edge to be sharpened and watch that line get honed away. Obviously, if it isn't being honed off, you are working on an area that is not the cutting edge.

 

[johnnyb]

Im so pleased dougb sorted out your issues as i see so many saying "i watch x or y on youtube" but even something as simple as a sharp edge is best shown using feedback and hands on. I have watched very well regarded youtubers and struggle to follow them, no fault of the channel its just the medium.

 

[AJBaker]

I was taught that the key to getting a sharp edge is to maintain a constant angle while sharpening. In this way, you produce a sharp angle rather than a rounded corner. I too like the veritas honing guide for helping maintain this constant angle. I would add that an indelible marker is also an essential sharpening tool. Draw a line along the edge to be sharpened and watch that line get honed away. Obviously, if it isn't being honed off, you are working on an area that is not the cutting edge.

Technically, provided the edge comes to an infinitely small apex, the angle of the bevel doesn't matter too much, (within reason).

It can be concave (hollow ground from a wheel), flat (sharpened with a guide) or convex (common when sharpening by hand).
As long as the bevel isn't interfering with the edge engaging the wood, and the edge is sharp, the tool will work fine.

 

[Jacob]

Technically, provided the edge comes to an infinitely small apex, the angle of the bevel doesn't matter too much, (within reason).

It can be concave (hollow ground from a wheel), flat (sharpened with a guide) or convex (common when sharpening by hand).
As long as the bevel isn't interfering with the edge engaging the wood, and the edge is sharp, the tool will work fine.

Fear of convex bevels came about because of the deprecated tendency of beginners to round over the edge, in search of a burr.
With practice one can round them under so that the edge stays at the desired angle but the bevel curves away, perhaps to arrive at the standard 25º. It amounts to the same thing; no primary and secondary, just one smooth curve.

 

[bbtex]

Fear of convex bevels came about because of the deprecated tendency of beginners to round over the edge, in search of a burr.
With practice one can round them under so that the edge stays at the desired angle but the bevel curves away, perhaps to arrive at the standard 25º. It amounts to the same thing; no primary and secondary, just one smooth curve.

Sorry, this might have been discussed before, but what is rounding under? And what is the difference between rounding over and rounding under? A diagram might help.

 

[Jacob]

Sorry, this might have been discussed before, but what is rounding under? And what is the difference between rounding over and rounding under? A diagram might help.

Quick back of envelope job here!
Top dotted line is rounded over, angle increased. Bottom is rounded under, angle stays the same.
I've got a neater drawing somewhere, I'll have to dig it out!

 

[bbtex]

Quick back of envelope job here!
Top dotted line is rounded over, angle increased. Bottom is rounded under, angle stays the same.
I've got a neater drawing somewhere, I'll have to dig it out!

View attachment 195901

Okay ta.
So essentially both are convex bevels but one is more convex than the other.

 

[Jacob]

Okay ta.
So essentially both are convex bevels but one is more convex than the other.

Yes but first has increased the edge angle, second keeps it same.
Freehand tends to round the bevel - it's quite difficult to freehand a flat one.
But if "rounded under" deliberately it doesn't lose the edge angle, which is the only thing which counts.
It's also faster because you hit the stone at chosen angle (30º or whatever) but dip the blade or handle slightly as you thrust it forwards, but with more force it's only removing waste not shaping the angle.

 

[Limey Lurker]

Quick rub down with white spirit and a rough piece of stone, or pan scrubber etc. I use a coarse (black) 3m diapad which I happened to have from another job. They aren't cheap but probably a good investment and last forever it seems. Also useful for glass edges and masonry stone cleaning etc
I don't bother flattening stones but try to spread the wear in use. They last forever, I've still got my first 6x1" combi stone bought from Woolworths about 60 years ago but tend to use Norton IB8 for almost everything. All you need really, from joiners axe down to 1/8" chisels.

I found my Diapad absolutely ideal for getting rid of nicks in propellor blades.

 

[Chris West]

At the end of the day, we need to find a sharpening method that doesn't require hours of time. When I am chopping out several dovetails in thick oak, for example, I have to sharpen my chisels a few times during the process. If it took me a long time to sharpen them, I might soldier on with a dull chisel - dangerous and inefficient to say the least. As long as I don't ding a cutting edge by dropping it or something equally dumb, sometimes just a few strokes on a leather strap is enough to keep me going between trips to the sharpening stone.