Sharpening for beginners

[Peter907]

I've just bought a sharpening kit and some lapping fluid. The kit has a 400 grit diamond plate, a 1000 grit diamond plate and an 8000 grit ceramic plate. I've watched numerous YouTube videos about sharpening, and the principles explained seem perfectly straightforward, but after several hours of practice with 4 different sized chisels (30mm to 6mm) working both with and without a honing guide, I have yet to achieve the stage where I can sharpen a chisel or my penknife to a sharpness where I can shave hairs from my arm or cut a sheet of printer paper without it leaving a jagged torn edge. Any advice or thoughts would be helpful.

 

[Gardener]

just out of interest which honing guide did you use

 

[Peter907]

It is a Saker off-centre honing guide from Amazon which had mostly good reviews.

 

[Ollie78]

Make sure you get a burr or wire edge at each grit before moving on to the next. This burr "proves" that you have got all the way to the point.
If you move on to a higher grit while still having a blunt point it will take hours to get there.
Normally you will be spending the most time on the rougher stone to get the shape right then each finer grit is just polishing it more and more.

 

[Gardener]

struggled with this myself in the past
got a veritas honing guide which is repeatable
also learnt that the back of the chisel is vital to work on as well
as the bevel

 

[Peter907]

@Ollie78 I think I checked properly for a burr before moving on, but will have another go this evening and make a point of checking

 

[Jacob]

Main problem for beginner modern sharpeners is honing jigs and guides. They make it more difficult, mainly because you can't get full force on them so it all takes longer, but also they make the essential "little and often" less easy. Too much fiddling about is a deterrent.
They were fairly uncommon fifty years ago, just a gadget for amateurs.
I discovered this belatedly and since then haven't touched one in years.
Takes a minute or so to sharpen a chisel freehand.
Main thing is to do it fast and forcefully, bringing up a burr over the whole width of the edge - easy to miss on a plane blade which tends to get more wear in the middle which can get overlooked.
Second essential is to do it a little and often; you keep your edge sharp, don't put it off, touch it up frequently.

 

[Amplidyne]

Main problem for beginner modern sharpeners is honing jigs and guides. They make it more difficult, mainly because you can't get full force on them so it all takes longer, but also they make the essential "little and often" less easy. Too much fiddling about is a deterrent.
They were fairly uncommon fifty years ago, just a gadget for amateurs.
I discovered this belatedly and since then haven't touched one in years.
Takes a minute or so to sharpen a chisel freehand.
Main thing is to do it fast and forcefully, bringing up a burr over the whole width of the edge - easy to miss on a plane blade which tends to get more wear in the middle which can get overlooked.
Second essential is to do it a little and often; you keep your edge sharp, don't put it off, touch it up frequently.

This is the best way IMHO.
I made wooden furniture professionally for 20 years or so. Working oak in particular, sharpening is an almost continuous process. Tried a few sharpening systems but always went back to the India Stone that I've had for 50 years, in a box I made with extensions for the stone so the whole stone gets used. I used to take back the grinding angle regularly on a high speed bench grinder. Open faced wheel, light touch, and plenty of cooling. I did use a jig for that. Two pieces of 1" X 1/4" drilled and tapped to make a clamp across the blade to give the required angle against the grinder rest. High tech!
I haven't lost a "patient" yet doing it that way, but you really don't want to discolour the steel at all.

 

[Peter907]

I watched Paul Sellers video showing his method of sharpening on diamond plates by hand without a honing guide. It made a lot of sense to me and seemed such a quick and easy method. After re-watching his video a couple of times and practicing his method for an hour, my edges won't even draw blood from my fingers unless I try very hard. I can't understand what the 8000 grit ceramic plate even does. It looks and feels like perfectly smooth white plastic which just gets permanent grey markings from the steel. Surely with diamond alone, I should be getting reasonable results within a few minutes. Is sharpening normally so difficult to master? Despite the time, effort and expense, so far, I'm wondering if I should seek out a local company that I can pay to sharpen my stuff, which is very frustrating.

 

[Ollie78]

I watched Paul Sellers video showing his method of sharpening on diamond plates by hand without a honing guide. It made a lot of sense to me and seemed such a quick and easy method. After re-watching his video a couple of times and practicing his method for an hour, my edges won't even draw blood from my fingers unless I try very hard. I can't understand what the 8000 grit ceramic plate even does. It looks and feels like perfectly smooth white plastic which just gets permanent grey markings from the steel. Surely with diamond alone, I should be getting reasonable results within a few minutes. Is sharpening normally so difficult to master? Despite the time, effort and expense, so far, I'm wondering if I should seek out a local company that I can pay to sharpen my stuff, which is very frustrating.

Do not dispair, there has to be a reason it is not working.

The 8000 grit is basically just polishing to a very shiny finish like a strop. The grey is the steel so it sounds like it is working ok.

The jumps between your grits are a bit big to be fair. I use Norton waterstones and the coarse one is 1000 then 4000 then 8000.
On my worksharp with abrasive paper I use more in between. This is not to say you can`t get a razor sharp edge with those grits.

I wonder if the problem is the chisels you are trying to sharpen, are they very cheap or poor quaility metal ? have they been ground too hot and lost their temper perhaps ? Only because it is much harder to sharpen soft steel.

The difference in steels is very noticable, I have one particular old slick that I found at a car boot sale that just has the best steel ever and it sharpens so well and stays sharp.

Pick a medium sized chisel and stick to that. maybe do a few photos one after each grit or something.

 

[Orraloon]

8000 is a very fine grit stone and a big step from the 1000 plate. You need a grit inbetween like 3000. You could just strop with stropping compound after the 1000 g plate like Mr Sellers does. Leave the 8000 stone for down the track a bit when you have come to grips with the basics. Like Jacob and Amplidyne I have gone back to a Norton India oilstone and strop with compound afterwords. Does not matter if its diamond plate or stones the same principals apply. You have to raise a burr at each step. Anyhow we all have to start someplace so I think this video shows how basic it can be.
Beginner how to sharpen a chisel - Google Search
Perhaps use the guide for a while to get started and move on to freehand when you feel ready.
Regards
John

 

[Bumble]

I do not use any jigs or guides and learned to sharpen chisel and plane blades from watching ewetube videos. If you search *Miyadaiku chisel sharpening*, there are plenty of videos. They vary in length but the content is similar.

I'm attempting to post a link but unsure how to do it. This is just an example of one



I liked one video I watched (I could not find it) where when asked how often to sharpen, the reply was *every day*. *Every day?*. *Yes every day*.
I think he meant the apprentices' training program included sharpening the blades *every day*.

I use a 400 diamond plate to reshape damaged/nicked/old blades and to flatten stones, 1000 and 4000.

 

[Cabinetman]

I sighed at your description of how your hard work hasn’t brought forth an edge. Not your fault at all! It’s the pundits of these ridiculous stones in their thousands of grit.
For hundreds of years and as is still the case the people who have made all the furniture you see only ever sharpened to about 400 on a combination stone, maybe if they needed to they would strop a bit as well. As a commercial bespoke furniture maker that’s all I have ever done, and @Jacob and @Amplidyne say the same.

This is the best way IMHO.
I made wooden furniture professionally for 20 years or so. Working oak in particular, sharpening is an almost continuous process. Tried a few sharpening systems but always went back to the India Stone that I've had for 50 years, in a box I made with extensions for the stone so the whole stone gets used. I used to take back the grinding angle regularly on a high speed bench grinder. Open faced wheel, light touch, and plenty of cooling. I did use a jig for that. Two pieces of 1" X 1/4" drilled and tapped to make a clamp across the blade to give the required angle against the grinder rest. High tech!
I haven't lost a "patient" yet doing it that way, but you really don't want to discolour the steel at all.

It really is quite simple and inexpensive, a Norton India combination stone will cost about £40? Plus a little thin oil. Put the sloping edge of the blade on the oiled stone and then lift it a fraction till the oil squeezes out then rub up and down at that same angle with medium downward force, after 10? rubs up and down feel the back edge and you should feel a roughness at the edge, this is the wire edge, to remove that put the back of the blade flat onto the stone and rub up and down just a few time with pressure keeping the blade flat on the stone, the wire will either have dropped off or is ready to, once it has gone that’s about it, I then have a habit of stropping it on my jeans but probably not needed tbh.
We are only cutting wood. It’s not Rocket science and as I’ve described will be quite sharp enough.
A picture to prove my point and credentials.

 

[--Tom--]

Photos of your edges or videos of you sharpening would really help otherwise all you’ll get is speculation.

Sharpening is simple once you know what to look for and in person feedback is the surest way to working it out. Relying on guess work will be frustrating.

If it would help happy to do a video call with you and sharpen live - should help as can then see what’s going on with what you’re doing.

 

[Gardener]

Don’t despair !
You’ll get there in the end, one way or another.
We’ve all had our frustrations where woodwork is concerned!

 

[MarkAW]

I think your grits are a bit high, so take a lot of work. I think mine are 300, 600, 1000 and then I have a leather strop.

Try putting a marker across the face so you can see sharpening progress (the marker will disappear as you remove material)

 

[Jacob]

Assuming you are managing to hit the stone at about 30º; if a burr doesn't come up quite quickly you need to go to a coarser stone. If necessary all the way back to the coarsest. Then when you get a burr you can go finer.
Mine are two Norton India combination stones which give me 3 options; coarse, fine, finer.
I also use a leather strop occasionally.
Best strop of all is an mdf disc on the outboard end of my lathe headstock. A smear of autosol and I can get a highly polished bevel/face in seconds. The rounded edge of the disc does inside gouges too.

 

[Jacob]

....

I liked one video I watched (I could not find it) where when asked how often to sharpen, the reply was *every day*. *Every day?*. *Yes every day*.
......

Every half hour if you are actually using the chisel or plane. A little and often, just a quick dab to keep the edge sharp. What's the point of using a blunt tool when sharpening is so easy?
I watched the vid. Interesting but very much over the top for a beginner I thought. It's essential to get a simple system going early on. You can always progress and collect extra stones as you go - if it turns you on! I've got a drawer full but only use 3 grits, after years of fiddling about with everything I could lay my hands on.

 

[Jacob]

I've just bought a sharpening kit and some lapping fluid. .....

"Lapping fluid" is generally an expensive rip off.
I use bicycle oil (3in1 etc) thinned half n half with white spirit or paraffin. Essential to wipe it off when you have finished or the stone can get clogged up and shiny.

 

[Peter907]

Some great responses above, thank you. I will be studying all your suggestions and the videos etc later today and trying them out.
I'm really not sure about hard or soft metal in my chisels, but one is at least 60 years old and the others are more modern but cheap and I've not got a good edge on any of them . Been trying to sharpen a small swiss army penknife blade without success.
I'm enjoying woodworking as my retirement hobby. Previously I only did it for DIY odd jobs around the house. I'm now making some very pleasing stuff on my lathe, using carbide, so no sharpening needed, but I want to improve my skills and branch out into other projects. I realise that having sharp tools is the key to my progression, so I really need to gain sharpening skills first.