Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Water off a duck's back!
Sharpening conspiracy!
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Eshmiel
Established Member
A tool only needs to be sharp enough for its purpose. True enough. But do those wishing to simply sharpening to a degree where any method of "sharpening" (of any and all kinds of steel or tool edge) will be good enough, whether its a brick, a steel or a diamond-coated summick?
My own experience tells me that a steel will sharpen bog-standard kitchen knives - until it doesn't because the edge has become so ragged, degraded and blunt to that a new aris/edge has to be made, which is best made by a means and materials superior to steeling. My experience also tells me that woodworking and its tooling needs edges that are far more resilient than those of kitchen knives. I tried our kitchen knives on the greenwood and found them useless, even for that relatively easy WW cutting.
I puzzles me why some want to simplify things so that they match some ancient process from the year dot. Do they do this with every technical aspect of life? Do they haul water up from a well in an old bucket and harness a horse to a cart every day to go to the market 25 miles away? Why the resistance to, and distain for, improved technical processes in sharpening?
One can find better methods amongst the feverish advertising and fashion-churns, methods and devices that really do improve sharpening of tools. A blanket rejection of such improvements seems just .... lazy, reactionary and self-defeating. Under-thinking it, one might say.
My own experience tells me that a steel will sharpen bog-standard kitchen knives - until it doesn't because the edge has become so ragged, degraded and blunt to that a new aris/edge has to be made, which is best made by a means and materials superior to steeling. My experience also tells me that woodworking and its tooling needs edges that are far more resilient than those of kitchen knives. I tried our kitchen knives on the greenwood and found them useless, even for that relatively easy WW cutting.
I puzzles me why some want to simplify things so that they match some ancient process from the year dot. Do they do this with every technical aspect of life? Do they haul water up from a well in an old bucket and harness a horse to a cart every day to go to the market 25 miles away? Why the resistance to, and distain for, improved technical processes in sharpening?
One can find better methods amongst the feverish advertising and fashion-churns, methods and devices that really do improve sharpening of tools. A blanket rejection of such improvements seems just .... lazy, reactionary and self-defeating. Under-thinking it, one might say.
Sunday morning thoughts....
Opinel is a fantastic knife for everyday use but has to be carbon steel not stainless.
Best way to sharpen a blade is a steel, don't argue with a fish filleter or a butcher! And yes every now and again their knives need to do on a stone to remove a nick.
You can't beat an oil stone and you don't need a roller guide or a gizmo.
Diamond stones are acceptable too but they wear out, I have only worn out a couple but I haven't got anywhere near with my grandfather's stones and some of those I feel are much older.
On hand tool sharpening issues I am 100% behind Jacob....
Opinel is a fantastic knife for everyday use but has to be carbon steel not stainless.
Best way to sharpen a blade is a steel, don't argue with a fish filleter or a butcher! And yes every now and again their knives need to do on a stone to remove a nick.
You can't beat an oil stone and you don't need a roller guide or a gizmo.
Diamond stones are acceptable too but they wear out, I have only worn out a couple but I haven't got anywhere near with my grandfather's stones and some of those I feel are much older.
On hand tool sharpening issues I am 100% behind Jacob....
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
.....in order to make things simpler....
....with the least amount of paraphernalia, ancient or modern, so that they can get on with the job in hand.
But you can be a sharpening enthusiast if that's what turns you on. Harmless hobby, as long as you don't cut yourself and have room for all the tackle!
Just a matter of not getting the two things confused, particularly for beginners, who might get directed towards, say, the burblings of Brent Beach, lose confidence in their ability to do things simply, which in turn makes their work more difficult.
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Last time I bought one they only had stainless in the shop. Still good enough for most purposes.
Don't try the standard method of drawing the knife down(or up) the steel, but instead hold the knife at 90 deg in about the middle of the steel and 'wipe' it from the heel to the tip.
It's safer.
Tip2 - Always wash or wipe the knife after steeling it, as small grains of metal will be on the knife and you dont want to be eating them.
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Do you know how hard a kitchen steel is? I know mine is not marked by Tool Steel.I suspect it's horses for courses.
If you don't spend much on a knife or blade then you usually get average steel. Nothing wrong with that. It's a value proposition and they are perfectly good for the majority of uses.
If you decide to spend more, then knives are a place where folk get interested in exotic steels and the sharpening challenges just follow from that. A blade with a Hitachi ZDP-189 edge (rockwell 67) is harder than your kitchen steel so you do end up needing something else.
Off the back of this thread, I'll be trying the kitchen steel on the opinel. Horses for courses
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I always cross steel and knife at the heel of the blade and sweep both full length away and across each other, with edge towards me.
Alternating top and bottom etc.
Particularly useful with the Sabatier style of kitchen knife with a pronounced heel, which wants to be sharp itself, for picking eyes out of spuds for instance. And it's easiest.
Dunno a bit of iron in the diet is good!
I just bought a new Wustoff bread knife from John Lewis, not cheap at £80 odd quid. Dropped it from the counter top and it shattered! To say I'm a little p****d off is an understatement.I suspect it's horses for courses.
If you don't spend much on a knife or blade then you usually get average steel. Nothing wrong with that. It's a value proposition and they are perfectly good for the majority of uses.
If you decide to spend more, then knives are a place where folk get interested in exotic steels and the sharpening challenges just follow from that. A blade with a Hitachi ZDP-189 edge (rockwell 67) is harder than your kitchen steel so you do end up needing something else.
Off the back of this thread, I'll be trying the kitchen steel on the opinel. Horses for courses
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
If sharpening is a prob you end up needing a more normal hardness of blade.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Why? Mind you I'm impressed by the way it slices a cucumber, I can't get anywhere near as precise with my stone axe.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Many seem to regard "sharp" as an edge which optimally is perfect to an atomic level - a kind of "perfect" sharp. More practically - sharp is that which cuts to a level of finish and precision that meets the users needs.
A bread knife is serrated to ensure the crust is can be cut with minimum effort where a "perfect" edge would struggle.
Other items - tomato an obvious example - may benefit from a "non-perfect" edge where minor edge imperfections allow the blade to break the skin more easily.
And the "perfect" edge to which many strive becomes imperfect almost as soon as it is used. How many mallet blows does it take chopping mortices into a hardwood before a "perfect" edge on a mortice chisel becomes the equivalent of one ground only with a 1000 grit diamond plate.
A bread knife is serrated to ensure the crust is can be cut with minimum effort where a "perfect" edge would struggle.
Other items - tomato an obvious example - may benefit from a "non-perfect" edge where minor edge imperfections allow the blade to break the skin more easily.
And the "perfect" edge to which many strive becomes imperfect almost as soon as it is used. How many mallet blows does it take chopping mortices into a hardwood before a "perfect" edge on a mortice chisel becomes the equivalent of one ground only with a 1000 grit diamond plate.
Phill05
Established Member
We used a triangular steel to keep sharp the old scythe and sickle, also touch up bill hooks and hand axe for hedge cutting & laying, It was forged by the local blacksmith out of a file I still have it minus the wood handle and it has a few dings in it now.
Today I use a tipped parting off cutter from my lathe a couple of swipe's down each side of the knife blade and it is very sharp no rough edges.
Today I use a tipped parting off cutter from my lathe a couple of swipe's down each side of the knife blade and it is very sharp no rough edges.
You must be sharpening the axe wrong look out for sharpening tips on the website.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I use a grit scythe stone on scythe and sickle. Hand axe on coarse side of Norton India. It's worn into a dip which somehow makes it easier.
You just can't get the polissoirs nowadays.
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Sharpening a 67 rockwell blade isn't a problem at all. It's every bit as easy as using a kitchen steel. You just need a diamond and or ceramic sharpener which in this day and age are readily available.
Why?? I like quality knives, or so I thought. I have Henckels, Wustoff, Mac and early Sabatier. All perfectly adequate for a keen cook and have served me well for many years. You seem to need to be as facetious as possible in a lot of your replies, sorry you feel the need to be so inclined? BTW the pedant in me, can't help but point out that's a courgette
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I guess I'm trying to point out that the practical needs of a typical knife user or woodworker are a long way from rigmaroles of the enthusiasts. It seems controversial!
I start and slice like this too, I just stay on top of the steel so I slice with a normal grip, edge first away from myself for a few strokes then slice back from the tip of the steel towards me using the wrist.
I was never into this b@llocks of striking matches away from you because it's safer. You hold the matchstick firmly between index and thumb with your 2nd finger close to the head to stop the stick breaking and strike it firmly....
When you're using something sharp, pay attention !
If that's a steel knife not a ceramic blade with a brittle fracture (and it presumably is) they messed up the heat treat. Take it back. Merchantable quality ...
Googling the specs of a range of steels, 65 rockwell is the hardest I've found. Most are less.
They're sharpening kitchen knives that are broadly around HRC55 so low 60's seems typical for steels.
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