Sharpening Advice

[stewart]

Hello all
I've been sharpening an old plane blade this weekend using an eclipse style hone guide.
I've set the blade projection for a primary bevel of 30 degrees. How much difference should there be for the micro bevel? If I decrease the projection of the blade from the honing guide by a couple of mm will that be sufficient?
Thanks for any advice.
Stewart

 

[Philly]

Should be plenty, Stewart. You only want to be honing a narrow micro-bevel. Say 1mm wide to begin with.
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[stewart]

Thanks, Philly.
That helps a lot.
I finally got round to making a wooden guide to help me set the iron in the honing guide at the right projection. I'll make another one for the micro bevel - I assume that the blade will need to project the same amount from the honing guide each time I re-hone the micro bevel?
Thanks
Stewart

 

[DaveL]

I assume that the blade will need to project the same amount from the honing guide each time I re-hone the micro bevel?

Spot on, a little setting jig makes these guides very quick to use, giving the repeat setting that is required.

 

[stewart]

Thanks, Dave.

 

[George_N]

This is a very timely thread. I've just bought a couple of planes on Ebay, a Record No. 5 and a Stanley No. 4 after reading the advice on this forum about getting hold of older planes rather than the current Record and Stanley offerings. I'm still waiting for them to be delivered but I'm sure the blades will need re-ground and honed. I was thinking of trying the Scary Sharp method as I have several grades of wet and dry paper in the garage. Should I grind the primary bevel on my coarse oilstone and just polish the back and do the micro-bevel on the wet and dry?

George

 

[AndyG]

George,
One of the advantages of the 'Scary sharp' system is that you should always get a nice flat surface for grinding/honing on. Of course this depends on what you've attached your wet and dry to, but if you've got a good piece of float glass you'll be able to get a good flat grind.

I guess the advantage of using a course stone for the initial grind is that it may be quicker than using a piece of course wet and dry. The problem is, unless your stone is flat, you'll not get the flat edge that the 'scary sharp' system will give you.

Just one world of advice. Be sure that your wet and dry paper is well secured to the glass. Don't be tempted to use this technique with it unsecured otherwise you'll never get a good edge. The wet and dry paper will buckle under the edge as you push and you'll just round the edge rather than getting a point.

Hope some of that helps
Andy

 

[George_N]

Thanks Andy,
I have a sheet of glass, a sliding door from a cupboard, and I will attach the wet and dry with spray adhesive. I don't know if the coarsest grade of abrasive I have in the mixed pack I got from Halfords will be abrasive enough. I'm guessing I should start at about 60 grit? Some of the other 'sand' papers I have might do the job.

George.

 

[sean_in_limerick]

Hi Stewart,
I'm pretty new to sharpening myself - any chance of a picture of your guide as it sounds useful!

Sean

 

[stewart]

Hi Sean
The jig is just 3 bits of mdf screwed together. Don't have access to workshop at the moment so have done a quick sketch of it. The base is a piece of mdf about 6 inches long. There are 2 shorter pieces screwed on to the top, set back the distance marked on the Eclipse honing guide. From memory, the distance for a 30 degree angle on a plane blade is 38mm, for 25 degress it's 50mm. These distances should be printed on the side of the honing guide.
Hope the picture is clear enough.

Cheers,
Stewart

 

[Philly]

Handy jig, Stewart!
Takes the brainwork out of it,
Philly

 

[stewart]

Handy jig, Stewart!
Takes the brainwork out of it

...except that I discovered tonight I'd used the measurements for a chisel rather than a plane iron ...still, at least I've got a chisel setting jig now :lol:
Stewart

 

[Philly]

Doh! (homer)
Philly :lol:

 

[GEPPETTO]

Hi All,
I wish to hook at this topic because my doubt is about sharpening/honing too. Every time I asked advice about honing it had answered me that I had to hook the way which works for me. I have tried scary system but I had seen that wet and dry doesn't stay flat forever and it clogs offen -therefore I have chosen oil stones.
Well, last tonight I tried to sharp/hone my #5 plane blade but the edge is in its middle part uneven- there are like teeth on the edge.
I must say that the blade was rusted and I think it could be happened for that. But now I have a mirror surface it's the same. I dont' know.
Do you have any advice? Is it possible that I always have microscopic rust and on the edge it is seen by naked eye?

 

[sean_in_limerick]

Thanks Stewart for that - nothing like a picture to illustrate a point - parden the pun! Much better idea than measuring with a steel rule as i do at present!

Sean

 

[DaveL]

Do you have any advice? Is it possible that I always have microscopic rust and on the edge it is seen by naked eye?

Geppetto have you flattened the back of the blade to a mirror finnish as well? The two surfaces intersecting is how you get a very clean cutting edge.

 

[engineer one]

gepetto
sharpening is a skill, but sometimes it seems to complex.
1/ make sure that the back of your blade, plane or chisel, is flat and mirror finish. a diamond stone to start, and then a 6000/8000 grit waterstone is my preferred way.

2/ sharpen the front with a honing guide, first on a coarse stone, then on a 6000/8000 grit stone, then go back and flatten the back again, since you have to get rid of the rough edge you have created by sharpening the front.

3/ it may be that what you are actually feeling is the "wire edge", and once you have got rid of this the effect that you are experiencing will go away.

check the Lie Nielson or Leonard Lee books on sharpening to see about wire edges.

finally always hone both faces of the blade with a polishing compound, even a chrome polish has for many people been found to be very successful, this really should produce a sharp edge.
it has for me.
all the best
paul :wink:

 

[GEPPETTO]

DaveL,engineer one

I know what you say.. I'm not an expert WW however in my little experience I honed plane blades and chisels as you said. Both edges were able to shave my arm hairs.
Yesterday night I replay honing the blade.. the uneven edge is been better but always UNEVEN.
I said, let's see what can do this blade even in this condition.. then bevel 25°+micro 30° and polish on the leather..OK. very brilliant surface with micro teeth more visible :evil: .

I try to plane a slab of fir on the cost.. few strokes over its knots and the edge is broken in more points.

Isn't it that the blade is too much hardened and brittle? Is it possible to soft the blade annealing it. If it is, how can I do it?

For new evidence I tried the SW blade of the other #5 I have on this #5.. WOW. Shavings are nearly transparent.

 

[bugbear]

I assume that the blade will need to project the same amount from the honing guide each time I re-hone the micro bevel?

Spot on, a little setting jig makes these guides very quick to use, giving the repeat setting that is required.

yes, indeedy. And the repeat is EXACT, which is also helpful.

http://www.wdynamic.com/galoots/4images ... ge_id=3508

BugBear

 

[Jarviser]

Do you have any advice? Is it possible that I always have microscopic rust and on the edge it is seen by naked eye?

I had a similar problem with #44 blades which had sat in their damp cardboard holder and had pitted in several places deep into the steel, they were almost 'diseased'. I had to grind back at least 3mm to get to a sound piece of steel. Just a thought, if you have a wet grinder.