Setting up for high power 230v machines, 20amp

[Prizen]

Hi all

I have a couple of Hammer machines on the way, N4400 and the A3-31 P/T.

I guess the positives of a long lead time are time to find the $balance , and to setup the shed.

In terms of getting an electrician in and what to request, I assume I need 2.5mm twin & earth to handle the current, along with 16 amp or 20 amp MCB.

I assume the isolation switches for each machine

Am I on the right lines here and anything I'm leaving out? Will need to hook up dust collection too.

I'm over in Ireland but electrical is pretty much the same spec over here.

Thanks

 

[Sideways]

The manual for each machine will tell you what supply it requires. Felder should be able to check and tell you what the minimum supply rating is for each.
While nominally, 2.5mm cable will be OK for 20 Amps, the internet can't safely advise you as cable ratings are affected by how the cable is installed. Your electrician will tell you what's needed when he visits to scope out the job.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Hi, would you mind sharing what lead time they are working to?

 

[Doug B]

It’s been a quite few years since I got my Hammer machines & although I wired them myself I did consult my electrician mate prior to carrying out the work.
The machines arrived with approximately half a meter of flex presumably this is just for their initial testing but it was too short to be of practical use to me so I wired in 2.5mm twin & earth flying leads with 32amp plug.
Both machines have separate feeds from the fuse box each with a type C 20amp MCB runnng via short lengths (max 4m) of 2.5 t&e to 32amp sockets either side of the workshop



The machines they replaced had run quite happily off 16amp type B MCB’s but neither of the Hammer machines would work of those which caused me a bit of a hold up as at the time getting type C for my old fuse box meant putting them on back order.
Hope that your is of some use.

 

[spb]

Tell your electrician what you want to do with it, and let them work out the spec required to achieve that and comply with the relevant rules. In this case, that means give them the specs for the machines you want to run, and where you want to put them, and then see which of the options they give you you prefer. What you need will depend on the details of your existing installation, and nobody on the Internet will be able to specify it for you without looking at what you've already got.

 

[Prizen]

Thanks all. I think consulting an electrician is the way forward, however, trying to get one that is reasonably priced (even in these times) is in itself a challenge.
If that is the case, then I will do my research and gauge up on the side of caution.
The MCB box in the shed was installed by an electrician 3 years ago, and I have already added an additional circuit precisely as done by the electrician.

 

[Prizen]

Hi, would you mind sharing what lead time they are working to?

No worries, it is 6-7 months from when I placed my order, which was a couple of months ago. Have sought a more firm date but haven't got one yet.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Crikey - I was expecting a couple of months maximum

 

[guineafowl21]

No worries, it is 6-7 months from when I placed my order, which was a couple of months ago. Have sought a more firm date but haven't got one yet.

6-7 months to wire in a couple of machines

If you have the machine plates handy I’m sure I can help you spec the circuits and do it yourself.

 

[Prizen]

 

[Prizen]

View attachment 90271

Sorry that is clearly USA plate, at least I know that much..

 

[Lord Kitchener]

I happen to know that Felder Uk will supply longer cables (I specified 6 metres) fitted to Hammer machines at the factory for no extra charge. You just have to ask, ideally before paying the deposit, when they are their most cooperative

 

[Doug B]

Crikey - I was expecting a couple of months maximum

It used to be around a couple of months, I’d guess covid has set them back particularly if they’d shut down manufacture.

 

[Blackswanwood]

I think you will be right Doug. Axminster seem to be out of stock on a lot of machines at the moment. I suppose the silver lining is that the demand is there.

 

[clogs]

for this kind of machines I tend to use the super duty flex cable as used for elec cookers.....
2.5 is on the limit and 4mm is to big......
been a long time since I lived in the UK but in Europe there is something like 3mm flex.....wonderful stuff...hard wearing if u need to drag stuff about.....comes in 2, 3, 4 and 5 core.......
apart rom the C type RCD's I' be having an industrial plug and socket on the wallfor each machine, 16amp would do it....they are over spec'd anyway....I dont hard wire anything even 3phase, as I often empty my workshop for a good clean ( plugs and sockets properly rated make life easy) on days when I'm not good company.....I find it very soothing to move machines and clean......hahaha.....sad I know......
the only other thing I do is to mount the the fuse board near the door so that I can kill the electric as I leave for the end of the day's pottering.....
if ur confident on doing small electrical jobs ie new sockets for the house, the only diff is everything is bigger...so u can DIY....who's fitting the fuse board and the main incoming....?
lastley depending where u are working but I'd be doing it anyway have another EARTHING ROD somewhere close to the fuse board......even if u take power from the house.....much safer that way....
keep away from domestic materials....just not tough enough.......

 

[Prizen]

for this kind of machines I tend to use the super duty flex cable as used for elec cookers.....
2.5 is on the limit and 4mm is to big......
been a long time since I lived in the UK but in Europe there is something like 3mm flex.....wonderful stuff...hard wearing if u need to drag stuff about.....comes in 2, 3, 4 and 5 core.......
apart rom the C type RCD's I' be having an industrial plug and socket on the wallfor each machine, 16amp would do it....they are over spec'd anyway....I dont hard wire anything even 3phase, as I often empty my workshop for a good clean ( plugs and sockets properly rated make life easy) on days when I'm not good company.....I find it very soothing to move machines and clean......hahaha.....sad I know......
the only other thing I do is to mount the the fuse board near the door so that I can kill the electric as I leave for the end of the day's pottering.....
if ur confident on doing small electrical jobs ie new sockets for the house, the only diff is everything is bigger...so u can DIY....who's fitting the fuse board and the main incoming....?
lastley depending where u are working but I'd be doing it anyway have another EARTHING ROD somewhere close to the fuse board......even if u take power from the house.....much safer that way....
keep away from domestic materials....just not tough enough.......

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. The fuse board is already in the shed, just as you say, it's at the door so I can kill the power easily on the way out. This was installed by an electrician so everything is setup correctly and I guess the hard work is done (armoured cable out to me shed etc) so that's good.

I guess I just need to get the right cabling, Type C 16 Amp MCB, 16amp plugs and sockets, and 3mm cable if I can find it.

 

[Doug B]

I guess I just need to get the right cabling, Type C 16 Amp MCB, 16amp plugs and sockets, and 3mm cable if I can find it.

Entirely up to you but I just check the plates on my machines more out of interest if I’d over egged on the electrical specs & found the planer is rated at 19.8 amps & the saw/ spindle 19amp.

Personally I’d check with Hammer before spending money on MCB’s etc

 

[Prizen]

Cheers. In my main box in the house, the Shed supply has a 40Amp type B MCB.

I cannot get 3.00 mm cable so perhaps 4.0mm2 with 20amp plugs, and a 20AMP type C MCB in the fuse box in the shed

 

[mindthatwhatouch]

What Doug B said above, he just beat me to it.

SY cable or similar for the flex. I'd be wary of trips on start up with a 16A MCB for that size of machine. Make sure the rating for cable, flex, plug and socket is above that of the MCB.

 

[guineafowl21]

1. How far from fuseboard to socket (cable length)?
2. How will the cable be installed (eg clipped onto wall, buried behind insulation,...)?

2.5 kW is roughly 10 amps, so unless the answers to the above warrant it, you should be fine with two 20 amp radial circuits in 2.5mm2 T&E. Type C breakers might be wise. In Britain, all sockets should be RCD protected unless there’s a very good reason not to. If the cables go above a gangway, they should be secured with something metal so they don’t hang down in the event of a fire.

SY is excellent for machine flex, but not specced for fixed wiring. And don’t rely on the braiding for earth - just bond it to earth at either end.

I would be inclined to leave your earthing alone, since the board was installed by a proper electrician. He will have either exported the house earth or installed an earth rod, depending on what is adequate for the supply. Don’t go banging in a random rod as you might get ground loops if your house earth is different.