HOJ
Established Member
I'm going to struggle to offer any specific advice, but sometimes lost leaders can pay dividends, more so when you've got nothing else, best advertising I've ever done.
Self employment
- Thread starter Designer1
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
I found that having a website was a game changer. It gives prospective clients the opportunity to view your work and ultimately the confidence to pay a deposit. In its simplest form a website acts as online portfolio which is easy for anyone to access.
You can make your own website for not much money. I've used Wix and whilst the process was a little out of my comfort zone, lots of perseverance paid off. You do need to have some nicely lit photos of work you are proud of.
Instagram. You'll be needing that too.
The best business is referral business. The alternative, working for complete strangers, has always made me a bit nervous until their final account is settled.
A constant flow of work is a pipe dream, my experience has been of feast and famine, You're either working 16 hours a day hurtling towards a deadline.... or wondering if the phone will ever ring again.
That's normal.
I think the main problem with being self employed for any length of time is that you become un-employable and get to the stage where you can't ever envisage working for the man again.
This is good.
I have found that good quality, well thought out, nicely proportioned fitted furniture pays the bills.
Free standing furniture does not.
You can make your own website for not much money. I've used Wix and whilst the process was a little out of my comfort zone, lots of perseverance paid off. You do need to have some nicely lit photos of work you are proud of.
Instagram. You'll be needing that too.
The best business is referral business. The alternative, working for complete strangers, has always made me a bit nervous until their final account is settled.
A constant flow of work is a pipe dream, my experience has been of feast and famine, You're either working 16 hours a day hurtling towards a deadline.... or wondering if the phone will ever ring again.
That's normal.
I think the main problem with being self employed for any length of time is that you become un-employable and get to the stage where you can't ever envisage working for the man again.
This is good.
I have found that good quality, well thought out, nicely proportioned fitted furniture pays the bills.
Free standing furniture does not.
Most younger fellas here start out working for a larger shop. They acquire experience, knowledge and the bosses might pass on
the smaller jobs to them, which they do in their spare time. They slowly build up their network of clients while having a reliable source
of income. Usually after 5-6 years they go on their own.
Like you, I started out self employed from day one. Looking back, I think it probably wasn't the best choice I made.
Your circumstances are probably very different than mine, so pay no attention.
That's the problem, trying to find someone willing to take me on at an age of mid twenties is nigh on impossible when they can take on a school leaver and pay £174 a week. No one is interested unfortunately.
Cabinetman
Established Member
Some very good advice here, and unfortunately this bit is true particularly when starting out, The amount of hours that go into making a proper piece of furniture just price it beyond peoples expectations of value, I tried to get in with the monied people by making solid oak equestrian equipment, and this would have been successful had I stuck with it, but it would have needed huge amounts of time and effort to display my wares at various equestrian events and in the event I struck lucky and my word-of-mouth client base made it unnecessary.
If you were thinking of chasing the horsey crowd it isn’t necessary to do the huge shows and they will charge you thousands to attend, there are many small events that will let you come along for a modest amount but you will need to provide your own tent or pop up at the least. Ian
RobinBHM
Established Member
I quickly learnt to buy the appliances and get them delivered to the workshop…..integrated appliances are always designed for overlay, not in-frame….and the solutions aren’t consistent across brands.
RobinBHM
Established Member
images, images images….put them on social media along with some writing, a bit of a blog etc….”just finished this job, all finished in high gloss canary yellow…”
get yourself a business Facebook page. Then Instagram - go to youtube and learn social media marketing.
joining local Facebook groups is great - they take a dim view of spamming but some allow a business post touting for business if you make a donation.
the clever way is not to tout for work, but make it information:
“I currently have some availability in December for made to measure wardrobes, please pm me for more information”
you could set a Google my business page (just be aware, if you get a bad review you can’t get it removed)
Yes apart from the integrated appliances I have a fair amount of confidence regarding making a kitchen. So this is probably what I would do.
Regards Facebook etc that's already on the go, it helps a bit. It's getting more views etc as time goes on.
DBT85
Established Member
Do you have a website showing some of your work with guide prices or "from" prices so that people that search for you have an idea that a 3m wide birch bookcase isn't going to be £500? That and a £50 ad in a local newsletter or something can work well. My local one is only distributed to 600 houses in the 7 local villages but at £44 for a year it's a no brainer. I've not done it yet as I'm currently balancing about 6 plates at once. Come April one plate is being put aside after 18 years.
I did something for a friend and ended up being paid £2500 for it. They knew it wasn't going to be cheap and they also knew it would have cost more had they got in a more seasoned maker. I was happy with £2500 as I'd literally never done anything that big short of my workshop, or used birch ply, made a single blum drawer box before etc. I was a great opportunity to flex my brain and buy some bits that make the next one easier, faster, more repeatable etc. It wasn't £2500 of profit of course and if I counted my hours it probably wasn't even a tenner an hour in that intance. I could bash out another one much faster now that I have a firm grasp on exactly what I'm doing and have worked out the kinks in my brain. Something I plan on doing in my own dining room in the new year
.
I'm fortunate that I'm winding down one avenue of work while starting this one, while being supported by a 3rd which my wife and I can deal with together. If I only did £10ks worth of work a year for the next 5 years that wouldn't be an issue for me in my circumstances, its even desirable, but for you and the majority of others that isn't the case naturally.
My other suggestion would be to be flexible. Yes, you only want to make X. But right now you don't have enough customers that want X. So see if you can do Y and Z too that get you into homes and earning some money while the client base builds up for X. Eventually and hopefully you get to the point where you can just decline Y and Z work unless its a particularly good customer you want to keep sweet, or think doing it will get you X in the future.
I did something for a friend and ended up being paid £2500 for it. They knew it wasn't going to be cheap and they also knew it would have cost more had they got in a more seasoned maker. I was happy with £2500 as I'd literally never done anything that big short of my workshop, or used birch ply, made a single blum drawer box before etc. I was a great opportunity to flex my brain and buy some bits that make the next one easier, faster, more repeatable etc. It wasn't £2500 of profit of course and if I counted my hours it probably wasn't even a tenner an hour in that intance. I could bash out another one much faster now that I have a firm grasp on exactly what I'm doing and have worked out the kinks in my brain. Something I plan on doing in my own dining room in the new year
.I'm fortunate that I'm winding down one avenue of work while starting this one, while being supported by a 3rd which my wife and I can deal with together. If I only did £10ks worth of work a year for the next 5 years that wouldn't be an issue for me in my circumstances, its even desirable, but for you and the majority of others that isn't the case naturally.
My other suggestion would be to be flexible. Yes, you only want to make X. But right now you don't have enough customers that want X. So see if you can do Y and Z too that get you into homes and earning some money while the client base builds up for X. Eventually and hopefully you get to the point where you can just decline Y and Z work unless its a particularly good customer you want to keep sweet, or think doing it will get you X in the future.
This is not true. We have received 2 1 star reviews for stays in our holdiay cottages on google and both were removed. It may depend on circumstances and how you report it though. Both of ours had no comment and we had no record of ever hosting anyone with that name. If you can't get it removed, don't be a sarky ****** when replying. It just turns off other customers even more.
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Being s.e can be a right pain in the a$$
Sometimes it seems like you are so busy and you desperately want a break, then you find a space to take a break
and you want to be at work!
Theres endless hours lost in finding prices and specs for quotes, meeting customers, getting materials, invoicing, yearly books, maintaining kit and blades etc. I sometimes just want to stop ( id love to change things about a bit )
The most import advice i vould give is to always do what you say you will do. You will quickly loose respect if you let customers down or mess them around with timing etc. Sure, its hard knowing how long the next few jobs will take when you are giving future customers dates, but you can say 'it'll be 3 to 4 weeks' if you think 2 to 3. That way, when you phone a week before you want to start, they'll think you are a hero. If it goes the other way, you may be seen as unreliable.
The other thing is occasionally you'll hit a bump in the road and actually not want to work
im there right now. I just have zero enthusiasm. Life is busy and right now more than ever i need to maximise my bank balance, but i cant be bothered 
Sometimes it seems like you are so busy and you desperately want a break, then you find a space to take a break
and you want to be at work!
Theres endless hours lost in finding prices and specs for quotes, meeting customers, getting materials, invoicing, yearly books, maintaining kit and blades etc. I sometimes just want to stop ( id love to change things about a bit )
The most import advice i vould give is to always do what you say you will do. You will quickly loose respect if you let customers down or mess them around with timing etc. Sure, its hard knowing how long the next few jobs will take when you are giving future customers dates, but you can say 'it'll be 3 to 4 weeks' if you think 2 to 3. That way, when you phone a week before you want to start, they'll think you are a hero. If it goes the other way, you may be seen as unreliable.
The other thing is occasionally you'll hit a bump in the road and actually not want to work
im there right now. I just have zero enthusiasm. Life is busy and right now more than ever i need to maximise my bank balance, but i cant be bothered Keith 66
Established Member
I was self employed for most of my working life starting in 84, Its a different world today. I was a boatbuilder & at that time there was plenty of work locally on both grp & wooden boats including a lot of restoration work which i loved.
A few things i quickly learnt. Dont underprice yourself, everybody can race to the bottom & you will see a lot of that today!
If all you do is cheap work thats all you will get.
Try & keep accounts up to date weekly, if you leave it months or heaven forbid all year it becomes a major headache. Your accountant will not like carrier bags full of mixed up bills & invoices, nor will hmrc.
Website & social media as essential today as word of mouth.
I was told early on by an old shipwright "It is worth remembering that all it takes is one bad job from you & mud sticks!"
A good reputation is valuable.
Good Luck!
A few things i quickly learnt. Dont underprice yourself, everybody can race to the bottom & you will see a lot of that today!
If all you do is cheap work thats all you will get.
Try & keep accounts up to date weekly, if you leave it months or heaven forbid all year it becomes a major headache. Your accountant will not like carrier bags full of mixed up bills & invoices, nor will hmrc.
Website & social media as essential today as word of mouth.
I was told early on by an old shipwright "It is worth remembering that all it takes is one bad job from you & mud sticks!"
A good reputation is valuable.
Good Luck!
peter-harrison
Established Member
I would never get someone else to fit one of my kitchens.
I've just made a very simple tall bookcase to be fitted by someone else. The front face had to line up with a beam in the ceiling, so I put 15mm scribing on the backs of the carcass. I forgot to tell the fitter (my bad!). He just put it in unscribed with loads of painters mate to fill the join. I had to go over and take it out (not easy as stuck in with caulk!), scribe and refit. Profit down the drain.
You can make a great set of cabinets look rubbish by fitting them badly. And if you get into an argument with the client, how do you agree what's down to the fitter and what's down to you?
I make all my cabinets flat-pack and get a friend to help for a day or two on site if needed.
I've just made a very simple tall bookcase to be fitted by someone else. The front face had to line up with a beam in the ceiling, so I put 15mm scribing on the backs of the carcass. I forgot to tell the fitter (my bad!). He just put it in unscribed with loads of painters mate to fill the join. I had to go over and take it out (not easy as stuck in with caulk!), scribe and refit. Profit down the drain.
You can make a great set of cabinets look rubbish by fitting them badly. And if you get into an argument with the client, how do you agree what's down to the fitter and what's down to you?
I make all my cabinets flat-pack and get a friend to help for a day or two on site if needed.
I think one of the biggest challenges today is quality and cost, we tend to live in a throwaway world where even a kitchen is now more like wall paper than a piece of furniture or thought of as part of the house. A lot of people don't see past the "look" and if it looks ok then they are happy as long as the doors stay on which means that if you like quality and working to high standards then you will struggle to compete with the big sheds, the more niche market is smaller for the more discerning customer like doctor Bob deals with who appreciate the overall product and details, look for his kitchens on these threads.
Unfortunately it is a cut throat game now in many trades where too many will give cheap prices to get the job and then will cut corners to try and make up for it later, so get a fixed price and not a day rate and make sure any so called extras are genuine.
There is no comparison between a school leaver and someone in their mid 20s. With a school leaver (in my experience and individuals vary very much) you spend a lot of time teaching them how to be a mature adult, as well as the skills themselves, lots of problems which cost time and money. Some of the mistakes are made due to a lack of life skills. Teaching skills can be very rewarding but also needs a lot of patience, and especially with the young. Teaching the old can be hard too, as they can get fixed in their ways, but someone in their mid 20s is ideal I think, its just that some of the financial incentives are not available which is why some employers might rule them out. The government tells us not to discriminate while doing so themselves quite blatantly.
Yes very true. The struggle is finding someone that wants to teach for the sake of teaching, instead of for the sake of financial incentives. I have had a few potential employers say to me, "stop the course you're doing and start our course". Even though the course they want me to do is 2 levels below! Smells like government grants to me, not interested in the learning...
Like you say it's easier to teach a mid 20 year old instead of a school leaver. But a school leaver comes with financial benefits. So it all depends on whether or not the company is interested in financial benefits or actually teaching.
Cheers,
Designer1
I think you need to remember that the "making" side of a furniture business is not the most important aspect of the business. It's marketing, sales, market fit, cashflow, supplier management, client management etc. etc.
Yes you can make kitchen cabinets I'm sure, but can you make them and compete profitably? At the lower end of the market, people will be looking at the kitchens from the big sheds, Howdens, moving on to Ikea / DIY Kitchens online. I don't see how you can make cabinets and make a profit and compete with those. People are looking for kitchen fitters not cabinet makers at that end of the market.
That basically means if you want to make the cabinets, you're going to be looking at high end kitchens with bigger budgets. And you're definitely not selling cabinets at this price point, you're selling lifestyle and the expectations drastically shoot up for what now is the focal point of the home. I don't think you could even contemplate a high end kitchen unless you had premises to make the cabinets, had someone available to spray them and also had the cashflow to sustain delays as Dr Bob said. Take a look at Dr Bob's website and his YouTube video of a walkthrough of a kitchen he did, look at all the details and work out if you're ready to take that on (apologies if you do have a fully loaded workshop..)
As Bob says, trends are very important. Get a business instagram account, find all the local 'influencers', which will mostly be women in their 30s / 40s who post on interiors / kitchens etc. Plenty of them will also be setting up 'our dream build' accounts, where they want to document their house renovation / new build from scratch process. Start following them. All of them will be resharing each others content, builds etc and you will see what look people are going for. If you could get some work for some of these, you'll definitely build word of mouth. People who want to show off their life on Instagram do also show it off in the real world too
As someone in my 30s, my wife laps all this stuff up and so much of our furniture / interior look of our home has come from this.
A couple of trends I see that are big right now that lend themselves to fitted furniture / custom work
- Wall panelling
- Under stairs storage - every new build in the past 20 years has been built too small, anyone with a stair void will want this.
I think you could keep yourself very busy just doing these two tasks.
As I say, you're not selling cabinets, you're selling lifestyle and you also want your clients to be confident to have you in their home.
- Turn up looking smart
- If you smoke, don't turn up at someone's house stinking of cigarettes (we had a plumber do just that to quote our boiler and my wife didn't want him in our house for 3 days)
- Emphasise that you will keep things clean and tidy up at the end of the day / job etc.
- If you're going to be traipsing through the house, use rolls of carpet protector liberally. I don't want a dusty, tired, old paint splattered dust sheet on my carpet without it.
Maybe I've just got lucky but the workmen in our home who've been careful about keeping things clean & tidy have also been the best.
The other people to find on Instagram are local small property developers who are doing one or 2 houses at a time. They'll often want a lot of made to measure items to give it that high end look (fitted wardrobes, fitted bathroom vanities). One of my friends has a painting business and he employs 10 people and keeps them busy with new builds from small property developers full time so he doesn't even have to bother with domestic work. Obviously it can take a while to get a job with these developers as they'll already have existing people they use but it can be done
Just a few thoughts.. hope it helps
Yes you can make kitchen cabinets I'm sure, but can you make them and compete profitably? At the lower end of the market, people will be looking at the kitchens from the big sheds, Howdens, moving on to Ikea / DIY Kitchens online. I don't see how you can make cabinets and make a profit and compete with those. People are looking for kitchen fitters not cabinet makers at that end of the market.
That basically means if you want to make the cabinets, you're going to be looking at high end kitchens with bigger budgets. And you're definitely not selling cabinets at this price point, you're selling lifestyle and the expectations drastically shoot up for what now is the focal point of the home. I don't think you could even contemplate a high end kitchen unless you had premises to make the cabinets, had someone available to spray them and also had the cashflow to sustain delays as Dr Bob said. Take a look at Dr Bob's website and his YouTube video of a walkthrough of a kitchen he did, look at all the details and work out if you're ready to take that on (apologies if you do have a fully loaded workshop..)
As Bob says, trends are very important. Get a business instagram account, find all the local 'influencers', which will mostly be women in their 30s / 40s who post on interiors / kitchens etc. Plenty of them will also be setting up 'our dream build' accounts, where they want to document their house renovation / new build from scratch process. Start following them. All of them will be resharing each others content, builds etc and you will see what look people are going for. If you could get some work for some of these, you'll definitely build word of mouth. People who want to show off their life on Instagram do also show it off in the real world too
As someone in my 30s, my wife laps all this stuff up and so much of our furniture / interior look of our home has come from this.
A couple of trends I see that are big right now that lend themselves to fitted furniture / custom work
- Wall panelling
- Under stairs storage - every new build in the past 20 years has been built too small, anyone with a stair void will want this.
I think you could keep yourself very busy just doing these two tasks.
As I say, you're not selling cabinets, you're selling lifestyle and you also want your clients to be confident to have you in their home.
- Turn up looking smart
- If you smoke, don't turn up at someone's house stinking of cigarettes (we had a plumber do just that to quote our boiler and my wife didn't want him in our house for 3 days)
- Emphasise that you will keep things clean and tidy up at the end of the day / job etc.
- If you're going to be traipsing through the house, use rolls of carpet protector liberally. I don't want a dusty, tired, old paint splattered dust sheet on my carpet without it.
Maybe I've just got lucky but the workmen in our home who've been careful about keeping things clean & tidy have also been the best.
The other people to find on Instagram are local small property developers who are doing one or 2 houses at a time. They'll often want a lot of made to measure items to give it that high end look (fitted wardrobes, fitted bathroom vanities). One of my friends has a painting business and he employs 10 people and keeps them busy with new builds from small property developers full time so he doesn't even have to bother with domestic work. Obviously it can take a while to get a job with these developers as they'll already have existing people they use but it can be done
Just a few thoughts.. hope it helps
Find your niche.
The majority my customers see previous work I have done and want something similar, rarely do the think outside the box and come to me wanting something completely different to the work I have done.
The majority my customers see previous work I have done and want something similar, rarely do the think outside the box and come to me wanting something completely different to the work I have done.
I think that is why engineers do not make good entrepreneurs, we enjoy the making to much and also why some good partnerships work where one does the making and the other runs the business.
I don't know the building industry or how it works but these days it is more about how you market yourself to customers than how good you are at what you do, while referrals/word of mouth is always going to be the best way to get new work when your starting out & don't have a big customer base then it is unlikely to give you enough work, as you build & gain customers how good you are may be enough on it's own, different industry but after 2 or 3 years I didn't advertise at all as I didn't want to grow my business & employ lots of people & I had enough coming in from the customers I had & those they referred to me.
Are there any opportunities for sub contract work? I know a lot of my customers use to work with other trade people, not sure if that is still the case, get yourself set up with google my business, it is actually changing name again to something like google business profile but whatever it is called it is free & really you should be on it. There are a few experts on youtube with tutorials on how to set it up & use it.
Branding is important to any Business & that should be consistent across everything you do, website, Vehicle livery, workwear, Business cards & any other printed material.
All about building trust with customers now days, social media works for most businesses but you need to be on the same social media channels as your customers or potential customers, what you do is quite visual so platforms like Instagram seem to work well, lots of pictures of work you have done on your website, social media channels & GMB
When it comes to building trust there is a book called "They ask you Answer" by Marcus Sheridan that is well worth reading & then implementing what he teaches.
Are there any opportunities for sub contract work? I know a lot of my customers use to work with other trade people, not sure if that is still the case, get yourself set up with google my business, it is actually changing name again to something like google business profile but whatever it is called it is free & really you should be on it. There are a few experts on youtube with tutorials on how to set it up & use it.
Branding is important to any Business & that should be consistent across everything you do, website, Vehicle livery, workwear, Business cards & any other printed material.
All about building trust with customers now days, social media works for most businesses but you need to be on the same social media channels as your customers or potential customers, what you do is quite visual so platforms like Instagram seem to work well, lots of pictures of work you have done on your website, social media channels & GMB
When it comes to building trust there is a book called "They ask you Answer" by Marcus Sheridan that is well worth reading & then implementing what he teaches.
thetyreman
Established Member
don't bother with facebook, make your own website is my advice, facebook can decide at any moment to change the algorithm and stop promoting your content, you need a website for the social media to go to, even if it's just a simple one page website still looks more credible in my eyes.
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