Second hand planes....

[pollys13]

I found this very interesting about what to look for, buying used planes. He goes into quite a degree of depth, on variations of design, like a cast yoke v a pressed yoke, pressed was for economy, cast is better, it seems.
I found it all quite an eye opener and the information given could help you get a good un instead of..... a wrong un.
" You can get good woodworking planes by buying second hand but you need to know what to look for. Here I give a few pointers to finding a good plane. "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu7QLP3ru7c

 

[thetyreman]

@thetyreman
I recommend watching Ttrees excellent video about flattening a No8 plane.
https://youtu.be/w_ux786ODwg

But seriously now, what causes the sole of a vintage hand plane not to be flat anymore? And also, why are the new fancy planes exempt from this?

too late I've already flattened my planes!

as trevanion said, metal wears over time, I am guessing that they were well used, they were all from ebay so I couldn't inspect them in person first, that's the main downside to online buying, I think the best one only needed 5-10 minutes but it still needed it, apparently it's very rare though, but not in my experience, either I was very unlucky or I'm a total nutcase where my version of flat is a much higher tolerance of what most people accept.

 

[MikeG.]

It's important that a novice understands that having a 100% perfectly flat sole isn't critical to the performance of the plane. Get rid of all the high points, and then as long as it is entirely flat around the mouth, most of the area in front of the blade, and much of the area behind, then it will work perfectly acceptably. It is pretty pointless spending hours taking the whole sole down just because of a small hollow say under the handle if all you are after is a working plane. If returning tools to showroom order is your thing, or you are an advanced woodworker making high end furniture to extreme levels of tolerance, then fine, flatten the whole sole. But for your first plane on your first foray into hand-tool working,.....just get it flat enough, focusing on the critical areas.

 

[MikeG.]

......as trevanion said, metal wears over time.....

A friend showed me a plane which had been used in a factory producing plywood office furniture in the 50s and 60s. It must have been used just on edges. There was a hollow running along the length of it which must have been getting on for 3mm deep.

 

[ZippityNZ]

Collecting and restoring old Stanley hand planes is such fun.

It will drive you nuts

 

[ED65]

£300 and no fettling, £10 and a few hours of fettling.
To each his own.

Amen brother.

Well, If you value your personal time at £50 an hour like some people, you'll soon get to £300 :lol:

I know you meant this sort of tongue in cheek but many people don't value their time at £50 an hour (and even if they do perhaps not when doing something like this).

But either way, really no common plane should take that long to get back into usable condition, at least not in the UK. Unless you actively enjoy the work and like the idea of saving an old, neglected tool from decaying any further and making it usable again there's really no need to subject yourself to the rustier rust buckets when something better is just around the corner.

 

[Trevanion]

Well, If you value your personal time at £50 an hour like some people, you'll soon get to £300 :lol:

I know you meant this sort of tongue in cheek but many people don't value their time at £50 an hour (and even if they do perhaps not when doing something like this).

I was referencing a previous thread where someone spent in excess of £400 on Blue Spruce chisels because he valued his hobby time as £50 an hour so by the time he actually got some old chisels, flattened them off and made them work again he would be in the thousands :lol:. It's the same thread Phil.p was referencing earlier when he said "A word of warning - if you buy sets of good, old chisels cheaply, you might have to grind and hone them." as the poster bought a really good, old set of Stanley chisels off him and was seriously disappointed that they needed any work at all...

 

[pollys13]

There is this shop in Bristol I've seen mentioned on this forum ( search function )
I seem to recollect the planes are all set up and ready to go and reasonable prices, he knows his planes!
http://www.bristol-design.co.uk/
PS Faithfull planes had some good reviews on this forum, so I thought worth a punt but the ones I got from Amazon, were naff and went back.

 

[AndyT]

There is this shop in Bristol I seen mentioned on this forum ( search function )
I seem to recollect the planes are all set up and ready to go and reasonable prices, he knows his planes!
http://www.bristol-design.co.uk/

An excellent shop if you are ever in Bristol but I don't think they do as much mail order as they used to.

There's a useful list of the handful of UK tool dealers with premises (ie not including the many eBay sellers) here

http://taths.org.uk/tools-trades/notes- ... ealers-etc

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Another worth a look - https://www.tooltique.co.uk/

 

[ED65]

Do the bases bow a lot. And if so are they easy to flatten. Wouldn't of thought they would to be fair.

They can be out-of-flat straight from the factory, or can subsequently distort due to internal stresses in the casting (this is seen less commonly in older planes because the foundries had a much longer rest period for the rough castings before machining was commenced). And as already covered above they are subject to wear; a slight hollowness along the length isn't that uncommon to find in a well-used plane.

However if you buy a lightly used plane – and there are many out there! – you should check how it works first before checking the sole for flatness and then attempting to do anything to it. Many planes don't have perfectly flat soles but function as they should, and making them flatter and smoother can actually negatively affect their performance. As a practical example, if you buy a 5 and intend to set it up and use it as a traditional jack the sole only needs to be flat-ish for the plane to work correctly, i.e. if you sight along the sole and it looks flat that'll do.

There's tons of good information on all aspects of this here in the archives. In terms of brands you can look you can cast a much wider net than just Record and Stanley, greatly increasing the pool of tools you might buy from on Gumtree, Facebook's marketplace, at car boots and (IMO as a last resort) eBay. Here's a thread where I asked the very question, what's worth looking out for and what's not in British-made metal planes: vintage-british-planes-worth-buying-t94472.html

Further to what I say above about how long restoration/refurbishment might take, buying right is the important first step. Then if you use the right techniques, barring anything unforeseen a bench plane can be brought back to usable condition in under an hour, and possibly in 20 minutes or so if you have your techniques down pat. This is 20-60 minutes of actual hands-on work, the total process (including wait times for finish the dry, any rust soaks to do their thing) might be a couple of days. I put at least three coats of finish on my handles and frequently more, so finishing time can stretch to a week + in my case, but it's still no more than 10 minutes or so of actual work after the scraping/sanding to prep the wood.

 

[Murphy mad]

I have never bought new planes I always remove the rust and flatten the sole on various grades of at and dry paper on a shirt of glass. If the blades are missing they can be found at boot sales or breaking a non useable one for spare parts.

 

[ZippityNZ]

.... I put at least three coats of finish on my handles and frequently more, so finishing time can stretch to a week + in my case, but it's still no more than 10 minutes or so of actual work after the scraping/sanding to prep the wood.

Care to explain in more detail, the processes you employ? Thanks

 

[Rich C]

I do around 4 to 5 coats of shellac on my plane handles, gives them a nice traditional feel.

 

[Vann]

...Might be better to buy new then i know its good out of the box...

New planes are NOT good out of the box. New planes are no more than a kit of parts that need checking out and fettling. This applies to new Stanley, Record, and any number of lesser brands.

If you want a new plane that IS ready to go, out of the box, you'll need to stump up the cost of a Clifton (UK), Lie-Nielsen (USA) or Veritas (Canada).

Older used Records and Stanleys (see what others have said) are a much better option than a new Stanley or Record. Less cost, less work required (usually) and less frustration.

Good luck.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I soak the woodwork overnight in BLO - it makes rosewood go black, but they're for using not looking at.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Agree with most advice given, but a few points
1. Quality took a big dive from the 60's on.
2. Stick to Stanley and Record, most other brands were made to lower stamdards e.g Acorn.
3.It is difficult to flatten a sole that is convex.
Jim

Add Woden to that list my no 6 bought at auction is excellent

Add Marples (NOT Record Marples) to Woden, Record and Stanley.
They are older and generally red.

 

[Mr T]

Here's a vid on buying second hand planes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu7QLP3ru7c&t=608s

Chris

 

[MikeG.]

Here's a vid on buying second hand planes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu7QLP3ru7c&t=608s

Chris

Do follow along, Chris ......That's already been linked to up thread.

 

[Mr T]

Sorry about that, I came to this thread late and didn't spot it had been mentioned before.

Chris