Second hand bandsaws - Record power BS350s, Minimax S45 or ?

[thomn]

Hi, new to the forum and just setting up my single garage home workshop. I have a 10x7 sedgwick planer thicknesser and due to lack of space I use a festool track saw in place of a table saw. Currently I’m on the hunt for a low cost (up to £500) second hand bandsaw.
The main things I’m looking for the saw for are joint cutting and resawing. I know for my money I won’t get a giant fit for purpose resaw, but also I don’t have a lot of space. Ideally I’d like to be able to resaw boards up to 12inch or so, but also I could do with the saw soon for a project, so I’m trying to look at what’s available not just what I’d ideally like.
So, currently someone near me is selling a little used Record Power BS350s which I could collect. That’s at £500. There’s also a few minimax s45s on eBay in reasonable condition for around the same price, but non are close to me so I’d have to add pallet shipping.
Other ones I’ve seen are startrite 352s and similar, which are going slightly higher plus many are three phase, and Scheppach Bessata 4, for around £600.

I like the look of the record power since it’s quite new, but it doesn’t quite have the height of cut I was hoping for...

Please could anyone offer some advice on the best all rounder in that second hand price range, especially for someone with no experience of maintaining/tuning a BS...

Many thanks! Thom

 

[johnnyb]

Start right with a startrite 352. Best of that bunch. The record will be slightly disapointing. The minimax I've never seen.

 

[sunnybob]

12" throat height. Thats BIG. My 350 axminster maxes out at 8" :shock: :shock:

 

[peter-harrison]

I have a Minimax T45 which I bought for the same reasons. It's not great at resawing especially that thick. If you have a good blade and are happy to take it slow (I'm a bit impatient!) It will probably be OK. For other bandsaw type uses, it's absolutely fine.

 

[thomn]

Thanks for your comments guys. I think I maybe need to count my pennies and go for a startrite if I can.

Someone is selling an old wadkin near me... attaching some photos. Would I be crazy to go for that beast at £700...!?

 

[sunnybob]

Anything old with the name wadkin is worthwhile. have you seen the crazy prices for 40 year old table saws?

 

[Ttrees]

That looks a nice wee Wadkin Bursgreen saw, it would be good to see what max width blade width it can take, for lesser TPI blades for resawing, if can handle a 3/4" blade it would be suitable, provided it has the resaw height capacity you're after.
You could always sell it again and you're not gonna lose out on anything.
It has a nice small footprint, about the same floor space as the small saw you mentioned.
If you are looking for an all rounder you have it.

What power outlets do you have... 16 or 13amp?

Probably the best deal you're gonna find for a bit it seems...
Does the (static?) phase converter come with the saw for that price?
Had a quick look on eBay for bandsaw, and band saw 's and only found an old Startrite 502 in your price range...

It probably has a dual voltage three phase motor...it says 415 on the machine badge, but that aint the motor nameplate.
If any three phase motor up to say 4HP, has 220v or 240v stamped on the motor nameplate it will run with a 13a household plug no bother,
even in the shoddy wirejob on my rented place what dims the lights from a single phase 1HP pillar drill, my 3HP machines runs fine.

All you need to run these machines is a VFD otherwise known as inverters...
You can buy these for less than £100, and now it seems you can buy ones that will run the fixed high voltage machines for quite a bit more,
but at least they do them nowadays.

There's a nice 24"/600mm Centauro saw in Manchester for 850 but it has a substantially bigger footprint than a 20" saw, or that seemingly smaller again Wadkin/Bursgreen...and not sure if it could be very easily hooked up to a cheap inverter, I would guess so though.

Probably seems a bit of a rant, but just informing you of your options.
Just to recap on your options

What wall outlets do you have 16amp blue sockets, or 13a household?

It sounds like you haven't got the funds yet to upgrade the shed wiring, if its only 13a sockets installed.
Presuming the latter ...
You will only get away with 2HP max single phase motor on a 13a plug, so that means for more grunt you will need
that converted three phase saw, buy another 3 phase machine with dual voltage "delta" low voltage configurable motor, but
Even if it says not on the nameplate, I would still have a look under the terminal cover to be sure if the machine were close, or worth
going for.
Good luck
Tom

 

[MilesH]

That is a 16" MZF from the 1950s (pre Wadkin). You can see the manual here: https://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk/mac ... andsaw-180

I had one and used it for resawing. It was a bit underpowered and the small wheels reduce blade life a bit. I doubt if it is dual voltage but you can always ask them to take a photo of the motor tag.

With regard to floorspace, according to the literature, it only takes up 2" less width and depth than the 24" BZB**, a nice example of which was available (probably still is) last week (£600).

**Edit. Definitely a mistake in their literature. The BZB takes up 46" x 32" of floorspace....

 

[Ttrees]

Forgot to mention it would be worth knowing two things about that machine.
Does it have sealed babbit bearings and what size the wheels are exactly, as it may be a pain to get new rubber ones to fit.
Presuming it has ones that are on the way out...
Scott and sargeant sell rubber tires, and rubber/cork ones for other sizes.

 

[MilesH]

Thread on the MZF here: https://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/f ... sgreen-mzf

 

[thomn]

Thanks all, really helpful. I am attaching a few more photos. I'm not sure of wheel size. To be honest I feel a bit out of my depth with this Wadkin!! Not sure I should do, but I'm going to guess it's going to need some work for which I don't have a great deal of time and zero experience...

That being said I'm tempted still, I know it'd be a great machine. The inverter does come with it at that price. Maybe I could take it to a tool place I know and get it serviced before setting it up at home.

I do have 16amp supplies in the workshop

Alternatively there's a startrite 352 on ebay for £550 just now in nice condition... might be a good choice. Once I pay £150 or so for shipping that's £700, so there's no monetary gain between either the startrite or the wadkin, so I guess it comes down to preference

 

[thomn]

here's a photo of the inverter

I could get an image from the seller of the motor badge

 

[MilesH]

There's a thread on the 352, including a link to the manual here: startrite-352-an-overview-t64852.html

 

[MilesH]

I could get an image from the seller of the motor badge

Bear in mind that it's a 6 pole motor if you need to replace it....

 

[Ttrees]

Thomn
That looks to be either a rotary phase converter or a static phase converter, not what's referred to as a VFD(variable frequency drive)
also known as inverters, same thing.
These are newer digital versions what make the machine run, not knowing much about the converters, as VFD's are becoming the norm now in private use where only one or two machines are running at a time.
The VFD's have a range of adjustability which if you were running from 13a plugs, would be an enormous advantage because you can adjust
the motor to have a longer startup time, thus less draw on your supply.... i.e program 7 seconds ramp up speed, instead of 3 seconds to get there.
Easy to hook up, and if you get a familiar VFD easy to enter in motor values (parameters) like speed, HP, etc

You could mention how long these boards are that you want to resaw, as to find the right machine for you.
You still have a wide choice in machines
Three phase will be half the price though, so you might want to wait and find a 20" machine for the right money if unsure about the old Wadkin Bursgreen, as babbit bearings and tire sourcing might be the deal breaker.
(Have not looked up if it takes regular bearings or poured babbitt bearings, nor wheel diameter)
Newer machines will have regular bearings you can easily buy for a few pounds each, wheels whats a standard size now, so easy to find tires for, and newer motors what can be converted to run on the cheap sub £100 inverters/vfd's easily.

Tom

 

[MilesH]

I'm pretty sure the MZF would have ball bearings.

If you email that picture of the converter to Boost Energy, they should be willing to tell you about it... http://www.boost-energy.com/phase-converters.

 

[Vann]

...Once I pay £150 or so for shipping that's £700, so there's no monetary gain between either the startrite or the wadkin, so I guess it comes down to preference

In that case it's the Bursgreen (Wadkin) saw by a mile. When Wadkin took over Sagar-Bursgreen, just a year or two after that saw was made, they kept that model in production and put their own name on it.

As Miles said, the Bursgreen will have ball bearings all round (without a doubt). And while I have no experience with phase converters, I think they eliminate the need for a dual voltage motor.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[MilesH]

The only downside to the Bursgreen is the motor power. That may not be a problem for you. In any case, you can run it straight away with the converter that comes with it. If you need more power, you can save up and buy a new motor: https://inverterdrive.com/group/Motors- ... 132S-6-B3/ and run it with a VFD. As Vann said, there's no comparison between the two machines..

 

[thomn]

I’ve been in touch with a good local tool repair shop in Edinburgh which has been around a long time. One of the guys there was cautioning me on the wadkin saw because he said the guides are impossible to replace, so if they’re shot then that’s irreparable... I know plenty of folk online have done full refurbs of machines like this so does anybody know differently or could you tell me if I go and take a look at the machine what to look at... the guy who’s selling it doesn’t know much about it but has had it on and says its running nice and quiet so no noticeable squeaks etc

 

[MilesH]

I’ve been in touch with a good local tool repair shop in Edinburgh which has been around a long time. One of the guys there was cautioning me on the wadkin saw because he said the guides are impossible to replace, so if they’re shot then that’s irreparable... I know plenty of folk online have done full refurbs of machines like this so does anybody know differently or could you tell me if I go and take a look at the machine what to look at... the guy who’s selling it doesn’t know much about it but has had it on and says its running nice and quiet so no noticeable squeaks etc

I wouldn't be put off by that. Nothing sophisticated about the original guide system. I used lignum vitae blocks bolted to the existing mount. I'm sure you could do the same with ceramic, these days. The thrust discs tend to get a bit knackered but I'm sure they could be replaced with something generic, too... Not a big deal to swap the whole guide system over, either....
I seem to remember the guide system on the Startrite 352 as being pretty badly designed....
Take some detailed pics of the machine, when you see it, and post them here, if you're in doubt.