Sawing a perfect tenon

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Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)

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Location
Perth, Australia
I designed this guide about 4 or 5 years ago and offered it to Lee Valley, who looked into producing it. In the end, however, LV decided that they could not find a way to manufacture it cheaply enough as a commercial proposition. So finally I now have the design back and I am passing to the public to build for private use. I just hate to see a great design not get used.

TenonGuide_html_29c40e46.jpg


Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... Guide.html

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Very clever Derek...it's amazing just how many things in my shop rely on rare earth magnets too! Great invention.

They make superb invisible tool holders too!

LV's loss is our gain!

Thanks for putting in the public domain mate!

Jimi
 
I did say a "similar idea", not the same, and marketing at around £45. It was more the price I was commenting on.
 
No worries. :)

You would probably need to find a niche market of people willing to pay a premium for hand tools and hand tool jigs.

Veritas also do a version of their saw guide for doing dovetails, for £47.

Perhaps they would be more likely to consider extending their range to include a tenoning jig?
 
Hi Derek,

That's a great idea, well done. Do you still use inches in Australia, or was that for the benefit of Lee Valley?

Thanks,
Neil
 
Thanks Neil

I grew up with both. I find inches useful for larger units and mm for smaller (avoids fractions). You should see the lingerie chest I am designing at present - it has a right Royal mix of measurements! :)

Actually, Canada uses metric ... only the USA uses imperial. Australia is metric, completely.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
I find inches useful for larger units and mm for smaller (avoids fractions). You should see the lingerie chest I am designing at present - it has a right Royal mix of measurements! :)

Derek

Erm - 36, 24, 36 by any chance? :D

Whilst I'm typing, may I offer a thought or two on sawing the perfect tenon?

The way I was taught at school about (cough) years ago was to set the job in the vice at about a 45 degree slant, then set the toothline of the saw on the mark on the corner nearest you, holding it's lateral position by bearing the sawblade against the ball of your thumb. Saw the vertical, and part way across the end, on both cheeks of the tenon. Then turn the job round in the vice, and do the same on the othr side. Then bring the job vertical, and finish the triangle of uncut wood. Then out of the vice onto a bench hook, and saw the shoulders.

This method has one great positive, and a couple of negatives. The positive is that at all times, you only saw to lines you can see. The negatives are that you have to start the saw on a corner, and that can lead to a certain amount of jumping about and uncertainty about exactly where the kerf starts at exactly the place you want absolute certainty about where you're sawing. The other slight negative is that because you're sawing by hand only, there's a little scope for things to wander either way, leaving a rather full tenon needing trimming on the cheek face, or an undercut cheek and thus a slack joint.

The first negative can be addressed two ways. The first is to start with the job nearer vertical in the vice, and the toothline of the saw laid gently on the end, allowing you to 'glide' the saw into a kerf - rather like starting the cut when sawing dovetails. Then saw down the vertical to the shoulder line, but only on the line you can see - at the far side of the tenon, lift the toe end of the saw a bit so that you don't cut the line you can't see. Then turn the job round in the vice as before, and ditto repeato - you can now see the line to cut it! Finish the triangle in the middle as before, then saw the shoulders. The second way is to take a bench chisel, and make a small notch at the corner, vertical cut right on the marked line, and a sloping cut in the cheek waste coming in to meet it - you can now start the saw with a couple of teeth engaged, so getting a smoother and more positive start to the cut.

The second negative can only really be addressed with practice - just like dovetailing. Cut a few, and get to know your saw. There's a dovetailing skill-builder strategy that advocates cutting a dovetail a day for a month, keeping the attempts and looking to get a bit better each day. The same idea could well be applied to that other fundamental joint of traditional woodworking - the mortice and tenon. Practice does indeed make perfect!

Please don't read this as an anti-jig rant - it most emphatically is not. Anybody who just can't get good results by hand and eye alone has the sure-fire fallback that a suitable jig may well be their saviour; and, let's face it, bench hooks and shooting boards are jigs!. However, the fastest results will usually be the 'mark out, cut by hand and eye' approach used by the skilled men of the past, and taking the time to develop the skill will be repayed many times over later.

I once read a forum question (can't remember which forum, now) about the best way to trim tenons for a good fit. One hoary old-timer replied that he didn't know, because he always aimed to fit the joint straight from the saw. It's by far the quickest way, but like any skill, it does need a bit of practice!
 
CC

Thank you for your treatise on sawing tenons.

I am not sure to whom you are addressing your rant about jigs. If you know anything about me, you will know that I have pretty well mastered the handsaw and cut most joints blindfolded. In spite of this I have designed a guide for someone to use to saw tenons. Not everyone has the ability to do this confidently, or perhaps they lack the hand skills for other reasons. Think about this.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Derek - please read my post again - I did say most specifically that it wasn't an anti-jig rant, and that for someone who just can't get good results by hand and eye alone, then jigs may well be their saviour.

My post was intended as a contribution to general knowledge - another way of doing the job, that's all; and most emphatically not a 'pop' at anybody, least of all yourself.

As for 'think about this' - I have, that's why I wrote what I did.

Edit to add - I assume that given the time here, it's currently the wee small hours in Aus - so a certain amount of boggle-eyed-ness on your part is wholly understandable; but I'm certainly not looking to pick a fight or make any snide or negative implications against you or anybody else.

However, given that the subject is 'Sawing the perfect tenon', I did feel justified in contributing what I did.
 
I think that's a beautifully designed jig, well done. I am rarher surprised that LV felt it was too expensive to manufacture, however that dies rarher depend on what retail price they think they could achieve. I would have thought the anyone looking at table saw tennon jig would have loved it as a better alternative.
 
deema":2pp02itl said:
I would have thought the anyone looking at table saw tennon jig would have loved it as a better alternative.

I wouldn't ! :D

If I was completely wedded to hand tools, or just wanted to do it that way for fun or satisfaction, or because there was a power cut (!), I would practice to do it well enough for what was required, and if I wanted to do a volume of them efficiently and accurately I would use the table saw or bandsaw.

Seems to me to a bit inbetween, a solution looking for a problem type situation ?

Not sure it is a price point issue, that may just be the polite way of avoiding saying there is no real need/market for it for most folk ?

No harm in it though, gets people thinking and discussing which is always good in itself.

Cheers, Paul
 
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