Saving a saw

[ydb1md]

I just responded to someone about saws, and thought I would throw the main gist of the response here, and add a few bits.

I came into this one kind of late. I'll have to post the "after" pics of my saw after I get it sharpened this weekend -- using the Mike's recommendations. Here's the "before" picture.

Here's an almost "after" shot. It still needs to be properly sharpened.

 

[Frank D.]

You guys (and gals) are awful. Now I'mgoing to buy some old saws too. When will it stop????

 

[MikeW]

...I came into this one kind of late. I'll have to post the "after" pics of my saw after I get it sharpened this weekend -- using the Mike's recommendations...

SNIP of PICS

Wonderful job, Dave!

That'll be a great user!

Take care,
Mike

 

[Alf]

assume you get an old saw which is not too badly worn, you flatten the top of the teeth, before you file at the fleam, do you set or stone the teeth set back to the middle? or do you file the teeth properly and then re-set?

Leave whatever set there is, 'cos it helps in keeping track of which teeth you're filing. Then it's personal preference as far as I can tell. I've set first, then sharpened, and I've sharpened and then set. Can't say it seems to matter although it will likely effect how much set you put on in the first place, unless, like me, you always seem to end up with too much and have to stone back a bit anyway. Having said which I rarely put any set on dovetail saws at all, but I digress...

Nice one, Dave. Sheesh, I might be moved to tackle the toothless tenon saw I have at this rate. Anyone got a Tuit I could borrow?

Cheers, Alf

 

[bugbear]

Instead, I file a DT or tenon saw with a modified rip/crosscut pattern. Less rake and fleam angle than a "true" crosscut would have.

Interesting. I recently filed a 14 TPI back saw with 8 degrees rake and fleam. Starts easily, cuts "fast enough". A small amount of fleam also make it easier to tell "away" teeth from "toward" teeth, which can be tricky on a pure rip filing on fine teeth with minimal set.

BugBear

 

[ydb1md]

Nice one, Dave. Sheesh, I might be moved to tackle the toothless tenon saw I have at this rate.
Cheers, Alf

Thanks for the compliments, you galoots!

Tackling this one was tougher than I thought it'd be from the auction picture. I got the majority of the rust off and then used some naval jelly to get at the rust in the crevices of the saw. The naval jelly did a great job of getting rid of the rust but it made my job tougher as it turned the entire blade almost black. So, then I set to the task of getting some semblance of shinyness back on the blade.

I also had a tough job with the handle -- the finish was old and aligatored. I DID find out that a scraper does a much better job on old varnish than sandpaper ever would. It also won't harm the wood the way a wire brush or chemicals would. I need to get some curved scrapers to better fit rounded contours.

The last thing I did was to put a couple coats of furniture wax on the blade -- which served three purposes: to keep out moisture, make the blade really slick and give it a nice shine.

 

[DaveL]

The naval jelly did a great job of getting rid of the rust but it made my job tougher as it turned the entire blade almost black.

Dave,

I thought that was a 'feature' of navel jelly, that black coating is designed to hold on to a new layer of paint :!:

 

[ydb1md]

The naval jelly did a great job of getting rid of the rust but it made my job tougher as it turned the entire blade almost black.

I thought that was a 'feature' of navel jelly, that black coating is designed to hold on to a new layer of paint :!:

Hi Dave,
You're right, that is a 'feature' of that stuff. I just didn't count on it turning the entire blade black. I am confident that the blade will never rust again. I just had to put a little more elbow grease into things. :roll:

 

[MikeW]

mike,
having also read TLN's book about sharpening i can kind of understand the fleam angle idea, but have a couple of thoughts about
why many of us are scared of sharpening hand saws.

assume you get an old saw which is not too badly worn, you flatten the top of the teeth, before you file at the fleam, do you set or stone the teeth set back to the middle? or do you file the teeth properly and then re-set?

know this sounds amateur, but it is the first question.

Paul :?

Hi Paul!

You're gonna "hate" my response...it depends <g>. I first place a straight edge along/on the teeth. If there is not much variance, I don't joint at all, or at most, just a pass or two (really carefully after last night <g>).

I try to leave set as is, never straightening it and never stoning at this point. Stoning removes metal, and so prior to sharpening just weakens teeth. "Unsetting" will result in extremely weak teeth. Plus as BB mentions, it is easier to keep track of the direction to file if left alone.

If there is "enough" set (most likely too much anyway), I sharpen and test the cut. If I have to, at this point I'll stone the side it wanders to during a cut.

If the saw had too little set (rare in my experience), after sharpening I'll set the teeth on the lowest setting I think I can get away with. Even pressure is the main thing to think about when setting teeth.

On fine toothed back saws, whether it is a true rip or a modified rip, I add no set. If the saw tries to bind, once again, I'll use my set which can actually be set to "none" and use it. That is usually enough.

If a saw has teeth like the one I was doing last night, where the cross cut teeth went out of order 5 times down the length, I'll joint the teeth nearly off all the way and use the small amount of gullet to indicate where to cut new teeth in. This is a slow process by file and have never been able to muster the concentration to go from start to finish. Best to have something else to do so you can walk away in such instances.

And whatever you do, don't get in a hurry. This will probably just cause an accident. What? With hand tools? Yep.

Take care, Mike

 

[Pete W]

And whatever you do, don't get in a hurry. This will probably just cause an accident.

Hey Mike - just saw your post over on Woodnet. :shock: Did you post the above before or after (can't work out the time difference)? Made me feel faint just reading about it.

Hope you heal up quick, and without too much pain.

 

[MikeW]

Hi Pete...after, of course!

Experience can be an unforgiving teacher.

Take care,

Mike "do as I say, not as I do" Wenzloff

 

[trevtheturner]

.... navel jelly....

...is that the stuff you rub in your belly button? And does it turn it black? :roll: :lol: :lol:

MikeW,

Thanks for starting and following through such an interesting and informative thread. Also, in our present day 'throw away' world it is really good to read of the efforts that go into the 'saving' of these old tools to make them serviceable again. I have two old Disstons, a panel saw and a brass-backed saw, both sharpened before I bought them at an auction. Both cut extremely well, but as a result of your info. above I will now have to take a close look on the filing that was done on them!

Cheers,

Trev.

 

[engineer one]

thanks mike and alf, that has cleared it up.

mike now you know why they invented power tools, to make sure
that you were careful!!!!!! (hammer) ](*,)

see most people are sure electricity is dangerous, and so take a little care,
but as our masters in brussels know, (sorry folks) when working with hand tools people cannot be trusted not to believe that they are clever and careful.

like you, mike i have done some strange things whilst working with hand
tools, but was lucky enough as an apprentice metal worker to have
regular safety lectures which left a strong impression on me. can't say that i do not make mistakes, but they seem to hurt less these days. :lol:

anyway, this has been very useful and helpful, and maybe i will soon
try to attack one of my older saws to see what i can do.
thanks for the memory of sharp tools mike

paul :wink:

 

[Philly]

Ouch Mike!
Sorry to hear about the file accident-that's a "tip" worth sharing! :shock:
Hope you heal up quick
Philly