Sale of Goods Act query

[RogerS]

We've been here before but just wanted to check....

I bought an video recorder from Company X via their ebay outlet. Paid for. Their shippers look as if they have lost it. Company X have none left and want to refund me. I don't want that. I want what they contracted to sell me. I can buy it elsewhere but for more money. The Sale of Goods Act says that if I do this then company X is supposed to pay the difference.

I think that that is right. Can anyone please confirm?

EDIT: They have stuck this in their Terms and Conditions which strikes me as an attempt to circumvent their responsibilities under the Sale of Goods Act

8.3 Company X shall be under no liability for any delay or failure to deliver products or otherwise perform any obligation as specified in these terms and conditions if the same is wholly or partly caused whether directly or indirectly by circumstances beyond its reasonable control.

Thanks

 

[brianhabby]

Not sure about the legal side of things here, maybe someone else will come alomg with a definitive answer. However, if the carrier has lost a parcel, then maybe company X can claim from them and pass it onto you.

regards

Brian

 

[SBJ]

If, as you say, the item has been lost in delivery do you rally want to penalise the seller? Sounds a bit tight to me.

 

[RogerS]

Well, Stuart, you know ..look at it this way. It's an end-of-line item....on sale through a number of channels at varying prices. So I choose this company. Might not be the cheapest. And I wait. And wait. Meanwhile the other slightly more expensive ones gradually go. I'm still waiting. I've paid for this. So then it goes missing and they have to try and find it before they will give a refund. Meanwhile the mid-priced ones have gone. That leaves only the most expensive ones left. So I'm fuc*ed.

What you are advocating is that you order something, you might get it, you might not. Bit of a gamble really. Contracts mean fu*k all, it would seem, in your world.

It's not my delivery company. It's theirs.

 

[frugal]

Sale of Goods act nothing, the Distance Selling regulations specifically state that the seller is responsible for the goods up to the point that they are in the hands of the purchaser. However the distance selling regs only apply to eBay if you did a "buy it now".

 

[SBJ]

Well, Stuart, you know ..look at it this way. It's an end-of-line item....on sale through a number of channels at varying prices. So I choose this company. Might not be the cheapest. And I wait. And wait. Meanwhile the other slightly more expensive ones gradually go. I'm still waiting. I've paid for this. So then it goes missing and they have to try and find it before they will give a refund. Meanwhile the mid-priced ones have gone. That leaves only the most expensive ones left. So I'm fuc*ed.

What you are advocating is that you order something, you might get it, you might not. Bit of a gamble really. Contracts mean fu*k all, it would seem, in your world.

It's not my delivery company. It's theirs.

Drama queen.

Let's say, you write an article for a magazine and it gets lost in the post - would you reimburse the magazine for lost sales due to the fact that circulation was down because of your missing article?

edit to add:

You've been offered your money back haven't you?

 

[RogerS]

Well, Stuart, you know ..look at it this way. It's an end-of-line item....on sale through a number of channels at varying prices. So I choose this company. Might not be the cheapest. And I wait. And wait. Meanwhile the other slightly more expensive ones gradually go. I'm still waiting. I've paid for this. So then it goes missing and they have to try and find it before they will give a refund. Meanwhile the mid-priced ones have gone. That leaves only the most expensive ones left. So I'm fuc*ed.

What you are advocating is that you order something, you might get it, you might not. Bit of a gamble really. Contracts mean fu*k all, it would seem, in your world.

It's not my delivery company. It's theirs.

Drama queen.

Let's say, you write an article for a magazine and it gets lost in the post - would you reimburse the magazine for lost sales due to the fact that circulation was down because of your missing article?

edit to add:

You've been offered your money back haven't you?

Not the same set of circumstances. Try this.

Festool have got a special deal on. You place an order with a company and pay for it. That is a contract. They screw up the order. By the time they have sorted it out, they have run out of stock. So has everyone else. You now have to pay an extra £200 to buy the same item. That's OK according to you.

or

Your customer asks you to make something for them. Maybe even pay a deposit. You make it for them. Then they turn round and say they don't want it. Still OK by you?

 

[SBJ]

I'm not sure that your second example works any better than mine.

I would of thought that as a supplier yourself, you would be able to see the other side of it. If it was me I would accept the refund and go and buy the item elsewhere. I'm sure that, technically, you are right and they have broken their contract, but as to how you would go about enforcing it, I'm not sure. Without knowing the value and extra that you have to pay it's difficult for me to evaluate how much of a miser you are being .Maybe it's a lot of money and it's worth the effort.

 

[big soft moose]

Its a difficult one - if the seller has the goods they contracted to supply (for example if this were rutlands and a "sale" plane) then it is reasonable enough to expect that they supply replacement goods at sale price rather than giving you your money back and forcing you to buy the goods elsewhere at RRP

however if the seller can't offer a replacement (for example if this was the only one they had) then it isnt reasonable to expect that they acquire another one in order to fulfil your order - but they could be reasonably expected to return your money. (that said some suppliers might choose to also compensate you for loss or to give a discount on another item , but thats a goodwill gesture not something they are obliged to do)

The reason for stressing the "reasonable expectation" is that this is what the case will turn on if you wind up in court - and if a magistrate belives that the company had acted "reasonably" in making the offer to refund and you had turned them down , then you might not only lose but wind up with their costs to pay

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

I think BSM has it.

I think a full refund including P&P is perfectly reasonable. Alternatively you could wait until they got more in sock if that is an option.

 

[RogerS]

To precis the excellent advice given by Jake in the other thread that I referred to :

Sale of Goods Act and Distance Selling Regs don't really come into it as far as this issue is concerned.

It is straightforward contract law. They offered to sell me item X for £Y. I agreed and paid them £Y. They then shipped item X to me. That forms the basis of our contract and is what is stated in their own T's and C's. However, I haven't received the item and so they are in breach of contract. To remedy the situation...ie for me to get to the point at which the contract would have been fulfilled, I have to go and purchase the item elsewhere for an extra cost £Z. Those are my damages and payable by the original supplier to remedy the breach.

Now whether or not the aggravation involved in pursuing this is worth the effort then that is down to the individual. The fact that most people won;t bother is what many companies rely on.
However it is not what I asked in my original post. All I asked for was clarification on a legal point. I did not ask for nor invite a whole bloody debate nor someone jumping down my throat and arguing the bloody toss when it was none of their business.

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

However it is not what I asked in my original post. All I asked for was clarification on a legal point. I did not ask for nor invite a whole bloody debate nor someone jumping down my throat and arguing the bloody toss when it was none of their business.

I doubt anyone intended to "jump down your throat" (I assume as I don't speak for everyone), certainly I didn't intend to if it is me you are referring too.

Generally speaking though asking for legal advice from anywhere except a solicitors that specialises in the area your question refers to is a bad idea, as you will get opinions and interpretations of the law that might not be entirely accurate.

I think your best bet is to phone citizens advice or a real solicitor (assuming that none of the guys that have responded are) and ask them. If you do please post back with their response as I for one would be interested to hear what it was.

Regards,

Ryan

 

[brianhabby]

Generally speaking though asking for legal advice from anywhere except a solicitors that specialises in the area your question refers to is a bad idea, as you will get opinions and interpretations of the law that might not be entirely accurate.

I think your best bet is to phone citizens advice or a real solicitor (assuming that none of the guys that have responded are) and ask them. If you do please post back with their response as I for one would be interested to hear what it was.

Regards,

Ryan

I would second what Ryan says, ask for legal advice from a legal expert and then let us know what they suggest as most people reading this would be very interested is their opinion. Hving said that, any advice from even a lawyer would only be that - 'an opinion'. The only sure fire way to resolve something like this is probably through the courts, and only you can decide if that's they way to go.

Best of luck in whatever you decide to do though

regards

Brian

 

[Lons]

Hi Roger

I've always found that direct contact with the powers that be within the company you're dealing with is the most productive approach and I've used it on several occasions.
This site is useful though not always completely accurate :-

http://www.connectotel.com/marcus/ceoemail.html


If the CEO or MD is on this list it's well worth a go as they usually can't resist getting their hands dirty and very quickly react to suggestions of poor customer service.
for example. I had a problem with BT broadband a few years ago, emailed the MD (at the time) at 11pm on a Sunday night and had a personal reply sent from his smartphone at 11.15pm. He moved heaven and earth over the following couple of days and I certainly got a result.

Just had another with a courier City Link who suspended all deliveries into my area for a full week whilst others were delivering. Didn't solve the problem but certainly got some communication and..... I wrote the email very late a night and copied to the MD of the Supplying company of my goods who telephoned me at 8am the following morning and spent the whole day trying to get my goods to me. This is a major organisation selling electrical goods on line but part of a huge corporation.

cheers

Bob