Safety Gaurds

[Tusses]

Yay or Nay ?

I am Norm / Self taught and as such have learned from the start to use a table saw without the blade guard/riving knife.

Now I have found a forum - I would like to know what people 'actually' do in their own workshop (not what they think they should tell others to do ! )

Anyone know if Norm ever puts the blade guard on when the cameras are off ?

Ta

Richard

 

[Paul Chapman]

When you're on your way to accident and emergency in an ambulance, is the fact that Norm didn't use a blade guard or riving knife going to make you feel any better :?

I'd put it back on if I were you.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Tusses]

Thanks for your reply Paul. I just wondered what people do themselves ! I mean - do people put the safety bits on and off depending on whether they are ripping or dadoing/tenoning / rabbeting etc etc ?

I guess its sort of like riding a motor bike without a helmet - you have a greater respect for what might happen -= just in the work shop you havent got other idiots to worry about

 

[TrimTheKing]

I leave both of mine firmly fixed where they are, unless I am using my crosscut sled, then they come off but the sled has a blade guard built into it.

Paul is right though, the riving knife in particular is there for a reason and is (I believe) mandatory across European 'made' machines, US are now following suit quicksmart.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Tusses]

Thanks Mark

Just me and Norm so far then :?

Maybe I sould re-thing how I use my TS

 

[Paul Chapman]

Actually, Richard, I don't have a table saw but I've seen a piece of wood fly across a workshop because a riving knife wasn't being used (or rather I didn't see it because it was travelling so fast :shock: :shock: ). It buried itself in the wall. In a worse case scenario, it could kill you. In most cases it will "just" cause serious injury.

There have been several pictures of mangled fingers posted on here over the years - they don't look very nice.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[OPJ]

Ripping solid timber, especially hardwoods or un-seasoned stuff, you're gonna come to a point where you struggle without a riving knife as the timber binds on the back of the blade and is regularly thrown back at you. They're there for a reason, however crap they may be on some cheap models!

Crown guards are pretty damn important too. Not only do they help protect your fingers from the spinning blade but most will also aid dust extraction with a small spout sticking out the top. You must get covered in saw dust if you don't bother with yours! :?

With all that in mind, I once worked with an idiot who had a scar on his neck from a riving knife... He was trying to rip some 100mm-thick timber (the saw wouldn't do it with the crown guard in place) and, I don't know, as the timber jammed on the riving knife at the back of the cut, it must have come in to contact with the back of the blade and was therefore shot right at him!

If you ask me, it sounds like the riving knife probably wasn't secured properly in the first place... :roll:

Even with a crown guard in place, it's good practice to keep your hands 300mm/12" away from the blade at all times. If you don't have any already, make yourself some push sticks! :wink:

 

[mpooley]

Firstly everyone is right you must not remove the guard or riving knife!

Now to tell you what i do !!

sometimes i have to cut 4 inch boards down so i do this by passing the work over the blade twice with no crown gaurd and the riving knife set to be level with the top of the blade.
this is the only way i can work out how to do it unfortunately.

I have taken to leaving the riving knife in this position as its so much faffing about to keep altering it but this makes ripping say a 2inch+ timber difficult as i cant get the crown gaurd on.

I dont like this so i am thinking of getting one of those cantilever crown gaurds from axminster. the ones with the built in dust collection.
at £99 its a bit dear so has anyone had experience of these before i get it?

thanks

mike

 

[Steve Maskery]

it must have come in to contact with the back of the blade and was therefore shot right at him!

If you ask me, it sounds like the riving knife probably wasn't secured properly in the first place... :roll:

It was probably an open-ended riving knife, now banned, I believe because of that very risk. Yes, they are easier to put on and take off, because you only have to slacken the securing screws, not remove them, but then the sort of accident you describe can occur. Riving knives should have a closed-ended slot, so that it can be adjusted but nor accidentally come off.

Tusses
You ask what people actually do.
I always use a riving knife for ripping, and I always use a guard for everything, although there was a time before I appreciated the risks when I did not do so. If I can't use my normal guard, I use a secondary stand-alone guard, which I think Nick is showing in the next issue of BW. Some of my jigs have an integrated guard.

My old saw came with a dreadful guard, which came off and never went back on again. I now have an Xcalibur. The guard that came with it was a basic crown guard that did not guard very well. I believe they have upgraded the guard now. But I made myself a SUVA-style guard, which you can see in my avatar. I also use a short fence, which has been discussed on here before.

Norm has done a lot for woodworking, but his safety practices are not part of his great legacy.

S

 

[woodbloke]

The guard and knife are always in place on the TS in my shop. What 'murricans do in their shops (even Sam Maloof) with a table saw (and bandsaw for that matter) has to be seen to be believed and when you do see it, it'll make your eyes water :shock:
Guards always in place - Rob

 

[NeilO]

here,here.... guards always in place, you can replace a chewed up peice of wood or knackered blade, but your fingers are irreplacable....

 

[Saintsman]

Mike,

I have the cantilever guard from Axminster: as you say, it ain't cheap, but IMHO it is worth every penny.

It means I use the guard every time, whereas I might otherwise be (unwisely) tempted to do without. The dust collection on my Xcalibur is also greatly improved. All in all, much recommended.

HTH

Paul

 

[Paul.J]

Mike.
Another vote from me for the Axy dust guard.
I had one fitted on my Unisaw and the difference was very noticeable.
Can also be swung out the way when i used the saw as a work top :shock:
Must get another one for the saw i've got now :roll:

 

[mpooley]

Thanks

will be ordering today then :lol:

 

[Tusses]

Thanks everyone. I'll check out a few after market guards - in the mean time, I'll weld a bar across the open ended bottom of my riving knife !

 

[skipdiver]

I bought a Record bench saw a few years back and then read a story where the untightened riving knife in the same model fell forward,hit the blade,shot out and embedded itself in the users cheek.I promptly took mine to my mates garage and had a piece welded on the end of the slot.

I also saw myself what can happen when i made caravans many moons ago.Someone was ripping down some hardwood and it bound,a piece shot out and stuck in the guys stomach like an arrow.Luckily the damage wasn't serious but it could have been worse.

I never use my saw without either the riving knife or crown guard and never will.They are there for a reason.

That just reminded me of another accident at the same caravan place.A small piece of wood had somehow got between the blade and riving knife and was rattling as the blade spun,looking as though it was going to shoot out at any moment.So what did the saw user do?Pushed it out with his index finger while the blade was still spinning.His index finger was still on the saw table when he withdrew his hand.So get the riving knife close to the blade chaps.

 

[mailee]

Now I will put the cat amongst the pigeons here and state that I hardly ever use the crown guard! :shock: I do however always have the riving knife fitted and wouldn't dream of removing this. IMHO I find the crown guard gets in the way for a lot of cuts I do, grooves, tennons etc. I do treat the saw with the respect it deserves as I know they don't take prisoners. I always wear safety specs and use a push stick. So feel safe enough using it. :wink: I will just go and touch some wood now just in case. :lol:

 

[Niki]

OK Mailee, you are not "impressing" me

I worked for 10 years on this table saw...I "didn't know" that there is something called "Riving knife" or "Crown guard"...

But, since I bought the new TS that already has the riving knife and guard...why not to use them...

We are lucky that the TS's in EU must come with riving knife and quick "install/remove" blade guard...in the contrary to the American saws that are just starting (the expensive ones) to supply the "New Euro marvel" that is called riving knife...and still it's "on the way" because the OSHA (SHE) requires the "Anti-kickback fingers" that are mounted on the riving knife...

I use the guard all the time (well, except with the Tenon jig but my both hands are holding the jig from the other side of the "wall").

In my opinion, the guard is there to;
*Keep your fingers/hands to come in contact with the "Meat slicer" - AKA Blade

*Prevent any UFO's (like wood, Melamine, Plastic laminate particles and Carbide teeth) to fly into the eyes, face or body.

*Not to draw your attention to the blade...I think that during the cut, one must watch all the time the fence (or more correctly, that the board is attached to the rip fence) but...it's very difficult to do so when a shiny naked stainless steel blade is rotating in front of your eyes and in the back of my head I know what it can do...so, I'm watching the blade.

On the pics below, you can see what happened to my guard when I wasn't carful for a split of a second....the picture would be much more "RED" if the guard wasn't there...but it was (to my luck...)

If you want to see the "effect" of "No guard" please have a look here
WARNING: VERY GRAFIC PICTURE
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/3365 roll down till you see the RED picture

Have a safe work
niki

 

[TheTiddles]

I love gore! More, more!

 

[Digit]

I was using my TS this evening with neither knife nor guard. I was tenoning so no chance of kickback nor do my fingers get near the blade, otherwise I use both.
I always told my apprentices it was like legging it across the motorway, okay, you survived, but that was a damned poor argument for repeating the excercise.
You can win a thousand times but you only need to lose once!

Roy.