Glynne
Established Member
I think this is a brilliant thread. There I was thinking I was a grumpy old git but in the light of some of the comments ......doctor Bob":3pdbs61s said:
Rutlands
- Thread starter Kieran62
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
So , it's a week on since the OP started singing the praises of Rutlands and yet we still don't know if his issues with item have been sorted !!
An email promising to rectify is useless unless the problem gets resolved .
WE NEED AN UPDATE !
An email promising to rectify is useless unless the problem gets resolved .
WE NEED AN UPDATE !
pcb1962":fo7i8kcd said:
Mercedes, one of the best cars I ever owned, but the customer service was atrocious.
My expectations are not unrealistic in any way, I just want a product to be serviceable when it arrives, that seems to escape the notice of most of those on here disagreeing with my posts, it would seem that they will accept, nah even expect an unserviceable product.
No retailer, no matter the circumstances can afford to loose customers, I don't mind paying more for better service.
Mike
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
Your expectations are nothing short of ludicrous!
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Off tack a little, but I'd think one of the worst items for lack of QC no matter who the supplier must be bandsaws - I don'r recall anyone ever saying they used one "out of the box".
I had parts on mine that could not possibly physically fit. :?
I had parts on mine that could not possibly physically fit. :?
MikeJhn":74m92ray said:
Oh youre leaning against an open door there. When I started woodworking just over 3 years ago I found exactly the same. NOTHING was good out of the box. Despite 3 years complaining (all the way up to MD levels) nothings changed.
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
This is 2017, stuff is made in the Far East to a price. We all get to enjoy access to bits of metal that in our Father's day were simply out of reach due to the price. With that "cheapness" comes another price. It's called poor quality. I don't get what it is about that you fail to grasp?
Bottom line, we buy, it arrives, sometimes its spot on, sometimes it needs help. It's a fact of modern life, end of. How the supplier responds to the broken thing is what defines them. Anybody paying Chinese import prices that has any other expectation than that is just living in a dream world. If it was Felder, different story.
Personally, I'm more than happy to pay the time and hassle premium necessary to access these machines and indeed then fettle them because they make a massive difference to what I can produce, certainly in terms of speed and flexibility.
I don't understand the problem?
Bottom line, we buy, it arrives, sometimes its spot on, sometimes it needs help. It's a fact of modern life, end of. How the supplier responds to the broken thing is what defines them. Anybody paying Chinese import prices that has any other expectation than that is just living in a dream world. If it was Felder, different story.
Personally, I'm more than happy to pay the time and hassle premium necessary to access these machines and indeed then fettle them because they make a massive difference to what I can produce, certainly in terms of speed and flexibility.
I don't understand the problem?
We will have to beg to differ, I can't understand anyone accepting mediocrity in anything they are paying for, I suppose it comes from working in a profession, until I retired, that anything below par could cost lives.
Mike
Mike
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
Like I said...it's 2017
MikeJhn":1nkd9uv5 said:
your confusing customer service with faulty/not fit for purpose goods , two totally different things
On your analogy for example retailer receives 1000 zip up jackets , 999 are perfect every customer happy , one the zip is broken ,now as long as the retailer rectifies this i.e refund or replacement in a timely , polite and efficient manner then this is GOOd customer service . Whereas you would boycott the retailer do you really thing the retailer should inspect every single item that goes out !
Now if for example they start to sell the jackets and straight away the zips are faulty on lots of them and they decide to carry on selling them anyway , then yes this is wrong .
Welcome to the real world where not everything is always perfect.
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
I've been finding this thread both fasicinating and entertaining. It has brought to the fore in my mind a few things I've noticed about people in general and woodworkers in particular. A major recurring themeset on this site and many others devoted to "pastimes " for men, whether in wood, metal, stone or plastic - is as follows:
A newbie asks what should I get in order to be able to do this hobby? You then have the usual arguments about buying new or old equipment. Those proponents of buy old kit justify their arguement with it's cheaper/better quality, but does need the spending of time rather than cash to rectify wear/abandonment issues that the 2nd hand kit may have, in order to make the equipment usable Within the new arguements are a couple of recurring themes. These being that you get what you pay for ie cheap = crap quality, poor fit etc and you spend time to rectify these problems. Or you spend serious money and should get something good to go out of the box. But in general you also get a large percentage of people saying that none of the equipment is fit for purpose straight out the box regardless of price and so it seems unless the high end company provides installation services etc for the larger kit.
The strange thing is that they all appear to agree on the following point though - They don't make them like they used to/ Quality is nowhere near to what it was. Surely this situation has come about due to us the customer being willing to accept items that are of inferior quality and in truth not fit for purpose - regardless of price point. The only reason I can see for these cheap bits of kit being on sale and in such profusion is that WE accept them.
Would it not stand to reason that if we refused to accept this crap, then the sellers would stop offering it to us as they would be left out of pocket. As I see it WE AS A SOCIETY are the direct cause and solution to this problem after all, we have put in place legislation that demands an item be fit for purpose or it goes back, admittedly the legislation allows us to be the arbetter of that fitness. Surely if we applied higher standards to our expectations then tablesaw with pressed tin tops that buckle and pop, inaccurate tapes, bandsaws that don't have fitting parts etc would not be produced in the first place.
Cost has nothing to do with the quality or accuracy in the long run of an items production run if these elements are factored in at the start of the design process, if the manufacturer and seller know that poor quality and accuracy will not be tolerated, they wont make crap.
The reasons we accept this is multi-faceted but on the whole can be put down to laziness on our part and we are all guilty of it (even if you don't want to admit it). Perhaps we should view the purchase of any item hypothetically, as a life and death decision, after all you aren't gonna buy a cheap pace maker of dubious/unkown quality for fitting to your child/mum/self as opposed to an inexpensive one of known provenance.
I suppose we could look at the situation through the lens of a slightly altered well known saying:
You don't get what you pay for/you get what you deserve and are willing to accept
A newbie asks what should I get in order to be able to do this hobby? You then have the usual arguments about buying new or old equipment. Those proponents of buy old kit justify their arguement with it's cheaper/better quality, but does need the spending of time rather than cash to rectify wear/abandonment issues that the 2nd hand kit may have, in order to make the equipment usable Within the new arguements are a couple of recurring themes. These being that you get what you pay for ie cheap = crap quality, poor fit etc and you spend time to rectify these problems. Or you spend serious money and should get something good to go out of the box. But in general you also get a large percentage of people saying that none of the equipment is fit for purpose straight out the box regardless of price and so it seems unless the high end company provides installation services etc for the larger kit.
The strange thing is that they all appear to agree on the following point though - They don't make them like they used to/ Quality is nowhere near to what it was. Surely this situation has come about due to us the customer being willing to accept items that are of inferior quality and in truth not fit for purpose - regardless of price point. The only reason I can see for these cheap bits of kit being on sale and in such profusion is that WE accept them.
Would it not stand to reason that if we refused to accept this crap, then the sellers would stop offering it to us as they would be left out of pocket. As I see it WE AS A SOCIETY are the direct cause and solution to this problem after all, we have put in place legislation that demands an item be fit for purpose or it goes back, admittedly the legislation allows us to be the arbetter of that fitness. Surely if we applied higher standards to our expectations then tablesaw with pressed tin tops that buckle and pop, inaccurate tapes, bandsaws that don't have fitting parts etc would not be produced in the first place.
Cost has nothing to do with the quality or accuracy in the long run of an items production run if these elements are factored in at the start of the design process, if the manufacturer and seller know that poor quality and accuracy will not be tolerated, they wont make crap.
The reasons we accept this is multi-faceted but on the whole can be put down to laziness on our part and we are all guilty of it (even if you don't want to admit it). Perhaps we should view the purchase of any item hypothetically, as a life and death decision, after all you aren't gonna buy a cheap pace maker of dubious/unkown quality for fitting to your child/mum/self as opposed to an inexpensive one of known provenance.
I suppose we could look at the situation through the lens of a slightly altered well known saying:
You don't get what you pay for/you get what you deserve and are willing to accept
In my case I bought cheap because I knew no better. Starting a new retirement hobby from scratch after a lifetime of working with metal (and BEFORE I found helpful forums on the subject) I was appalled that two out of three pieces in my first order were substandard. Both with MAJOR faults straight from the box, both with enclosed letters from the companies telling me how every machine has been tested for my piece of mind (despite all box seals being intact).
After binning the first bandsaw I bought a bigger and better one. That had a problem more to do with poor catalogue descriptions aggravated by a design flaw which I happily worked around. Then I bought a small bench drill, and that was UNUSABLE straight from the box.
When more than 50% of the machinery I bought was faulty from new, and THREE out of all purchases were UNUSABLE FROM NEW, I dont think you can use the tired old "you get what you paid for" excuse.
After binning the first bandsaw I bought a bigger and better one. That had a problem more to do with poor catalogue descriptions aggravated by a design flaw which I happily worked around. Then I bought a small bench drill, and that was UNUSABLE straight from the box.
When more than 50% of the machinery I bought was faulty from new, and THREE out of all purchases were UNUSABLE FROM NEW, I dont think you can use the tired old "you get what you paid for" excuse.
To take only tiny contradictory example, that of tape measures, I don't think there were ever any good old days. Tape measures have always been inaccurate beasts, and they have improved in recent years in two ways. One, the printing machines that make them are much more accurate and better controlled. Two, European regulations (hurrah) have defined Class 1 and Class 2 tapes and you know what you are getting. If you buy an unclassified tape, such as Stanleys until recently, you are at risk of buying worse than class 2.
Things that can be produced to finished state on modern production machines are normally better. Modern automobiles are incredibly well made. It's the costly hand finishing and quality control that is suffering, or commands a super premium price.
Keith
Things that can be produced to finished state on modern production machines are normally better. Modern automobiles are incredibly well made. It's the costly hand finishing and quality control that is suffering, or commands a super premium price.
Keith
Afternoon,
My first visit to the forum this week, didn't expect to see so much discussion about such a simple purchase.
To update, I received the new jig on Saturday morning, all the magnets were level with the housings and the gauges had been calibrated.
So I got what was promised in the email; therefore I am more than happy with my buying experience; there was a fault on a £30 jig, I made one phone call, where I was dealt with promptly and courteously, the new jig was sent out on a 48hr delivery, I checked the item and was happy with the quality, matter is resolved.
Droogs is correct, we get what we pay for, but that price shouldn't reflect the level of service we receive when something is faulty or the quality is not to the buyers expectations and, in this case Rutlands provided an excellent level of service in my view.
Play nice everyone
Kieran
My first visit to the forum this week, didn't expect to see so much discussion about such a simple purchase.
To update, I received the new jig on Saturday morning, all the magnets were level with the housings and the gauges had been calibrated.
So I got what was promised in the email; therefore I am more than happy with my buying experience; there was a fault on a £30 jig, I made one phone call, where I was dealt with promptly and courteously, the new jig was sent out on a 48hr delivery, I checked the item and was happy with the quality, matter is resolved.
Droogs is correct, we get what we pay for, but that price shouldn't reflect the level of service we receive when something is faulty or the quality is not to the buyers expectations and, in this case Rutlands provided an excellent level of service in my view.
Play nice everyone
Kieran
Evening,
To pay a third more for the Rutlands jig would still make it cheaper than the identical jig from Axi (http://www.axminster.co.uk/planer-blade ... jig-700360), however, do you really think either firm would would inspect every item for only £10?
You have labour costs, repackaging costs, recycling costs and setting a workshop aside for the inspections to take place.
The profit margins are going to be small on such items, and I fully understand why firms are willing to take the risk of the customer returning faulty goods.
The reason for my post was to point out how helpful an individual at Rutlands was, and the painless process it was to get things sorted out.
It seems to have spiraled out of all sense of reason, with some people becoming angry, about, for most of them is not an issue!
I bought the jig, I'm happy with how the situation was dealt with, I've set up my planer, I can now get on with some work!
To pay a third more for the Rutlands jig would still make it cheaper than the identical jig from Axi (http://www.axminster.co.uk/planer-blade ... jig-700360), however, do you really think either firm would would inspect every item for only £10?
You have labour costs, repackaging costs, recycling costs and setting a workshop aside for the inspections to take place.
The profit margins are going to be small on such items, and I fully understand why firms are willing to take the risk of the customer returning faulty goods.
The reason for my post was to point out how helpful an individual at Rutlands was, and the painless process it was to get things sorted out.
It seems to have spiraled out of all sense of reason, with some people becoming angry, about, for most of them is not an issue!
I bought the jig, I'm happy with how the situation was dealt with, I've set up my planer, I can now get on with some work!
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