Rutalands japanese chisels

[andycorleone]

Hi, this set of 4 jap chisels from rutlands is only 29.99 :

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/DKRV33

Cheaper I can fin is tilgear for £46 and axminster £119.79( for set of 5 ). why the huge diference? what people think of the cheap ones?

 

[tnimble]

I'm not an expert on jap chisels but there must be quality differences between the various individual makers and also between mass produced ones. I'm also not entirely convinced that they are made by a Japanese maker or just Japanese style.

 

[frugal]

What is it about Japanese chisels that make them different? what are the advantages / disadvantages compared to western chisels?

 

[tnimble]

I know their made of laminated steel.

For a good sharp edge a steel is required that has a very fine grain to begin with. The steel is hardened for it to be able to get and hold an edge. The harder the steel is made the sharper (and more easily without burrs/wire edges folding around on you) an edge can be made and lasts longer. However when hardening a steel the steel looses its bendability and becomes breakable.

The hardness of a steel after hardening and tempering is often measuered in rockwell. Around 64 rockwell the stell becomes to brittle to be useable. If you would hit a very hrd steel (or even letting it drop on a concrete floor) with a hammer it would shatter like if it was glass.

That is also why after hardening a steel must be temperered. Hardening is fairly uncontrolled. When aiming for for indstance for 62R after hardening it good as well be 50R as it could be 68R. When hardening the aim is to overharden a bit and then by tempering have a controlled way to reach the desired hardness which might be around 60R to 63R in this example.

When a steel is laminated from multiple types of steel much more can be done when hardening the steel. When one would pick two allows that harden to respectivly say 50R and 70R at the same temperature a tool can be made that is hardned at 68R without is being as brittle. The softer steel will support and give the flex to the thinner layer of very hard steel.

 

[woodbloke]

frugal wrote:

What is it about Japanese chisels that make them different? what are the advantages / disadvantages compared to western chisels?

Because of the laminated structure a Jap chisel will take a fantastic edge which is the upside. The downside is (IMO) that there is a great iron hoop at the end of the handle which makes for very uncomfortable for hand work...tho' not too bad for belting with a Jap hammer - Rob

 

[tnimble]

The downside is (IMO) that there is a great iron hoop at the end of the handle which makes for very uncomfortable for hand work...tho' not too bad for belting with a Jap hammer - Rob

Not all seem to heve the hoops like this all steel jap chisel. I hve no idea how comfortable a steel handle is though.

 

[woodbloke]

The one shown in the pic is a Jap paring chisel and is designed not to be struck with a hammer. The ordinary Jap chisels I had a few years ago with the short handle and hoop were very uncomfortable after a couple of hours use so much so that I used to end up with a big red weal :evil: in the middle of my palm if I was doing, say, horizontal paring - Rob

 

[ivan]

UK chisels and blades used to be laminated once, began becuase steel was costly compared to iron. Nowadays most chisels and blades are not forged from multiple hammer blows, but by one almighty smelt. The steel in the resulting chisel etc has a coarser grain structure (the tiny crystals that make up the solid) than if it was teased into shape with hundreds of hammer blows on the red hot tool.
The beter Jap chisels are made by hand this way still - but probably not the very cheap ones! Thus good Jap chisel takes a fine edge and shouldn't crumble, and the laminated structure allows the steel to be tempered to a greater hardness. Thus not suitable for building site or opening paint tins. How do you tell if it's a good one? You have to trust the dealer, so see what he actually knows about Jap tools before buying.

 

[shim20]

frugal wrote:

What is it about Japanese chisels that make them different? what are the advantages / disadvantages compared to western chisels?

Because of the laminated structure a Jap chisel will take a fantastic edge which is the upside. The downside is (IMO) that there is a great iron hoop at the end of the handle which makes for very uncomfortable for hand work...tho' not too bad for belting with a Jap hammer - Rob

i agree. i brought one to try. and took the hoop off as it cut into your hands when used by hand.