rust prevention

[Jacob]

Using raw linseed oil, how long would it take to dry?
Sufficient not to run off, on tools being placed in long term storage. (2-5 years dry professional self store. Not ex-shipping container.)
I'm beginning to look toward the day when I will have to pack up my workshop for storage, and am looking to prevent the rust I have removed, from returning!

Bod

24 - 48 hours at room temps. But if you are just putting them into storage they could go in wet - though they could stick together if not separated. Good for wooden handles too.

 

[Farmer Giles]

I've been meaning to do this for ages, condensation and subsequent rust is a big problem in my workshop, I intend to solve if by a few means however getting a good rust preventative coating on your precious tools is a good step towards this. I know I can put some oil as thick as treacle, Texaco vertical slideway oil X220, on my tools and they won't rust, I do that on my lathe and milling machine beds anc chucks but its horribly messy and sticky. Not good for more delicate tools.

Over the last couple of years I must have read about ten threads on this with everybody throwing their favourite coating into the ring. So, in the aim of getting a little bit of science applied to this, I will use the following surface plate for an experiment.

It is a big lump of iron so imitates a machine or plane quite well. It is 12" x 12". I will divide it up into several squares label them then coat them in a rust preventive and leave it in the workshop. The surface plate was covered in rust when I got it so I am not ruining it, plus these fantastic coating will protect it won't they.

Coating will be thinly applied like you would in use. I don't have a full list of stuff I have to hand in the workshop but off the top off my head I have :-

WD40,
Gibbs Brand
Camelia oil, came from Axminster about 15 years ago, says made in Japan on it
light machine oil - 3 in 1 type stuff
Liberon lubricating wax
Some Bilt Hamber wax, could be their UC
Loads of other waxes, bees etc.
Loads of linseed oil, danish, etc. etc.

If I divide the plate up into 3" squares then that is 16 products to test, it is a static test so no hand sweat or wear but I think its a bit better than throwing product names into a hat.

I'm open to suggestion on what coatings to apply, however must be practical so that tools can be used without dipping them into acetone or Mount Etna's lava.

I will also get suggestions from another forum.

Comments welcome

Cheers
Andy

 

[JWD]

This is so useful guys keep it coming!

I now know what it is i will have to store as they were birthday surprises but naturally i've found out and ruined it all

2x veritas saws
1x LN No.62
5x suminagashi jap chisels
1x moore and wright eng. square.

jw00d i was thinking of using those little packets! great minds

I do have one query - i was watching Paul Sellers at nauseum last night and saw his 'tin can oiler' - so if i regularly applied liberon wax to these tools would i also benefit from oiling them or would it just be redundant?

 

[Bod]

Using raw linseed oil, how long would it take to dry?
Sufficient not to run off, on tools being placed in long term storage. (2-5 years dry professional self store. Not ex-shipping container.)
I'm beginning to look toward the day when I will have to pack up my workshop for storage, and am looking to prevent the rust I have removed, from returning!

Bod

24 - 48 hours at room temps. But if you are just putting them into storage they could go in wet - though they could stick together if not separated. Good for wooden handles too.

Thanks, that's well within my time scale.

Bod

 

[MattRoberts]

Nice one Andy, sounds like a good experiment. Can you throw water based poly into the mix? I've heard it's actually very good at protecting a cast iron tablesaw top, and am planning to use it myself as soon as I have time to clean and prep mine

 

[SteveF]

am I lucky?
my shed door is rarely closed all year round even now with frosty mornings
it does get locked when me or the dog are not here
I have never experienced rust on my cast iron
I have never bothered treating it

Steve

 

[Farmer Giles]

Nice one Andy, sounds like a good experiment. Can you throw water based poly into the mix? I've heard it's actually very good at protecting a cast iron tablesaw top, and am planning to use it myself as soon as I have time to clean and prep mine

Hi Matt, I have a bit of Bona Mega left which is a water based poly, I could try that.

Cheers
Andy

 

[RossJarvis]

"Supplied in a pump action spray bottle, this Camellia oil is blended with paraffin oil..."

Taken from here: http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+knives-kni ... nds+jp2100

That shouldn't be just called "camellia oil". I think most people, when they see a bottle of "camellia oil", would expect it be be 100% camellia oil.

At £60 per litre, it would be much cheaper to buy it anywhere else except from a tool shop.

I think the paraffin may be a thinner so that it actually sprays from the spray nozzle, or else it helps keep you regular if you drink it. Axminster says the paraffin lowers the viscosity, but fail to tell you why, it would help it spray better of course. I think the paraffin evaporates off when sprayed on. You can get it without the paraffin or the spray nozzles for around a tenner on a popular internet auction site

 

[Robbo3]

When my concrete sectional shed had an asbestos type roof the condensation & hence the rust had to be seen to be believed.
I made a shallow wooden tray, lined with soft material & soaked in 3 in 1 oil, for my smoothing & block planes to sit in. This resulted in a rust line from the top to about half way down on each side & oily marks on the wood when planing.
Changing the roof material to twin wall polycarbonate cured the condensation problem but I still have to remember to wipe the bottom of the planes before use.

 

[Jacob]

am I lucky?
my shed door is rarely closed all year round even now with frosty mornings
it does get locked when me or the dog are not here
I have never experienced rust on my cast iron
I have never bothered treating it

Steve

Me too. Never been a problem in the various workshops I've had - including a draughty coal shed some years back.
I guess I don't bother about a bit of rust and hardly notice it.
Though I do take my own advice about linseed oil and have applied it to some very rusty tools bought. Brush off the loose rust and brush on oil, which stabilises it. Then in use it rubs off and polishes up as you go. On an old saw you end up with a brown/black finish but polished up and clean to use with just a glimmer of clean steel showing wear the teeth have been sharpened.
Can't say I'm tempted to use camellia oil, sensitol, anusol etc they all too expensive for me!

 

[wallace]

Andy how about Boeshield and renaissance wax, one thing I've used on machines waiting to be restored outside is waxoyle. The stuff you use on car chassis.

 

[whiskywill]

And linseed oil is less than £4 a litre, cheaper than a pint in my local.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[Farmer Giles]

My workshop is on the 1st floor, so the floor is not damp. It is a steel frame building with insulated cladding all round. It isn't hermetically sealed but there isn't massive gaps. I have tried dehumidifiers and they don't do a lot, the workshop is 20m x 6m with a reasonably high ceiling so unless I pay a fortune in electricity the dehumidifier will struggle to lower the humidity. I have had humidity gauges checking etc. with one running, the tank fill up quickly but the humidity is only slightly reduced.

The problem is condensation, the workshop gets cold, big lumps of iron get cold, the next day the air warms up and dumps it's moisture onto the cold lumps of iron. I now take more precautions with my machinery however here's a couple of examples of overnight condensation based rust.

This machine had just been renovated a few weeks before, and I had wiped it over with an oily rag after use, the previous day it was fine, this was the first condensation rust of the season.

However the machine that I had been renovating a couple of days before did not have the oily rag treatment yet, I had been cleaning up the ways etc. This is the same night, it had been immaculate the day before

Fortunately I caught it early and it was powdery surface rust and if didn't do any lasting damage, a few more nights and it would have been pitted. Here's after a light going over with a brass brush.

I now use heavy oil on the milling machine and oil during the winter and I'm looking into other measures such as background heating so I can beat it but they don't look so pretty covered in gloop. I also cover the machines with dust sheets which definitely help, putting hand tools in drawers helps too. I have tried various waxes and they are good on woodworking machines and planes. I shall kick the experiment off soon.

Cheers
Andy

 

[El Barto]

This is so useful guys keep it coming!

I now know what it is i will have to store as they were birthday surprises but naturally i've found out and ruined it all

2x veritas saws
1x LN No.62
5x suminagashi jap chisels
1x moore and wright eng. square.

jw00d i was thinking of using those little packets! great minds

I do have one query - i was watching Paul Sellers at nauseum last night and saw his 'tin can oiler' - so if i regularly applied liberon wax to these tools would i also benefit from oiling them or would it just be redundant?

Paul seems to use that tin can oiler on the sole of his plane to reduce friction/make a smoother cut etc. I use something similar and do like it. Then when I'm finished I give the plane a general wipe down with the oiler.

I use Liberon wax for larger or stationary tools, the table of my bandsaw for example or large areas that are going to see less use. As hand tools are constantly being handled (duh) and moved around I prefer wiping them down with an oily rag (or the Sellers tin can). Much quicker.

 

[sunnybob]

Andy, your workshop is too well fitted. Condensation forms when warm air meets cold air. If you leave your workshop open to the elements, or at the very least have extremely good through flow of air, the temp inside and out match, so condensation does not form.

 

[Farmer Giles]

Andy, your workshop is too well fitted. Condensation forms when warm air meets cold air. If you leave your workshop open to the elements, or at the very least have extremely good through flow of air, the temp inside and out match, so condensation does not form.

I like the theory Bob but machines I have in the downstairs barn rust for fun and that has loads of through draft. Maybe not so much condensation driven though, not sure. However it will be very cold up in the workshop with a healthy through draft, I may have to tie myself to the machine to work on it!

I have my eye on a 12kw pellet stove with a 25kg hopper. It has a timer and a thermostat. It should heat the space up a few degrees for a couple of days between fills. Pellets are about 250 quid a tonne so 25kg would cost me about 6 quid and I will be able to work without gloves in the winter. I'm waiting for the latest building bills to come in and if I have enough dosh left I will buy it. With a bit of heat and some appropriate coatings I am hoping to be rust free without covering everything with gloop.

 

[hawkeyefxr]

A garage is about the worst place because of the concrete floor, it was a real pain on my Harley. I found a motorcycle product you spray on and no moisture or water get anywhere near you nice new shiny tools, cant remember the name of it but its used in the aircraft industry. Downside it , it's right PIA to clean off, so going to use your tools for a quick job is not on.
I use engine oil but pour some on a rag and just wipe the surface then leave the rag on the metal surface.
Someone mentioned a ventilated workshop. My ol dad made his own shed out of all bits and pieces and the roof never met the walls, he had no rust problems at all lol.

 

[Farmer Giles]

I think ventilation does make a difference, however up in t'Pennines different rules apply, everything is wet.

I have half the roof off the house at the moment while adding an extension and the roofer has gone AWOL, not answering his phone for 2 days now. When I eventually catch up with him, and I will, I will teach him to answer his phone while it is inserted where the sun don't shine (no, not Burnley ).

 

[Tasky]

A garage is about the worst place because of the concrete floor, it was a real pain on my Harley. I found a motorcycle product you spray on and no moisture or water get anywhere near you nice new shiny tools, cant remember the name of it but its used in the aircraft industry. Downside it , it's right PIA to clean off, so going to use your tools for a quick job is not on.

ACF-50
Air Craft Formula.
There's also Scottoiler FS-365, which is quite similar.

It forms a barrier that the road gunk and cack stick to instead of your bike, but I found it merely trapped a lot of the foul stuff and furthered the corrosion, especially on the pipes where it gets boiled off. Some people also find it destroys your plastics.

 

[sunnybob]

A garage is about the worst place because of the concrete floor, it was a real pain on my Harley. I found a motorcycle product you spray on and no moisture or water get anywhere near you nice new shiny tools, cant remember the name of it but its used in the aircraft industry. Downside it , it's right PIA to clean off, so going to use your tools for a quick job is not on.
I use engine oil but pour some on a rag and just wipe the surface then leave the rag on the metal surface.
Someone mentioned a ventilated workshop. My ol dad made his own shed out of all bits and pieces and the roof never met the walls, he had no rust problems at all lol.

ACF 50.
i used it on my bike when I shipped it out here. 3 weeks in a container at sea and perfect chrome when it arrived. I also used it on my woodworking tools untill the can ran dry.