Rust on plane bodies

[David C]

Sounds like Azimuth error to me.

Is the surface of the frog, across its width, twisted/tilted relative to the sole?

Best wishes,
David

 

[Vann]

I have an old Acorn No3, which is not used, and I will see if that frog will fit, so at least I can make some comparison.

A "Stanley era" Acorn frog should fit, whereas a "JA Chapman era" Acorn frog is a different design.

If I understand correctly - there should be enough slack in the frog screw slots to allow it to be moved to the left, even if you have to grind a bit off the side of the frog in places.

Maybe inaccurate machining on the bottom of the frog is tilting the whole frog over? If that's the case you should be able to carefully file/scrape/grind that back to 90 degrees.

You can also rotate the frog very slightly to ensure it sits at 90 degrees to the sides - and if it doesn't align with both side cut-outs, line it up with one cut-out and then file back the other to suit.

Clear as mud?

Cheers, Vann.

 

[tbone]

Hello there
I am new to the site. What I would say is that you can collect tools and keep them in good condition but they were made to use every day. Planes are trade tools for work shops or site use. When a plane gets handled and used all the time the upper parts go dull but the bottom is in contact with the wood so it self cleans to an extent. Resin and glue deposits need a little clean off as required bot apart from that they last a trades mans life time. My main plane is a smoothing plane and it is like (Triggers brush in Fools and horses) its had lots of new blades and handles but its still going strong. I served my time in the seventies and like the plane I am still going strong Lol.
Just another way of looking at things. I no this is not the drift of what you were asking but I just thought I would add my 2p worth.
tbone.

 

[Bod]

I spent some more time on this damn piece of scrap iron. I think now know why it seems to have had so little use. It has proved difficult to get the blade to sit square in the plane, and despite fiddling about with the frog, the blade will only sit square with the lateral adjuster pointing about 15 degrees to the right.
I have had the frog out and checked to see that it sits square. The frog does not have the fore and aft adjustment screw, so is a bit fiddly to adjust. Getting it to sit square across the line of the side cut outs, does not solve the problem. The blade edge is square and the blade is not twisted.

Checking the position of the lateral adjuster against the sides of the frog, shows a difference of c.1mm., although the frog sides are not machined and really don't provide an accurate datum. The frog screw holes are also out by a similar amount.
The overall effect is that although the plane can be brought to cut square, it is not possible to get the plane blade to align with the left side of the plane body, whereas it will project outside the line of the RH side, by default.
Apart from being appalled by the poor quality of production from a supposedly reputable maker, I am now sufficiently bugged by it that I am determined to make the thing work properly. I will not pass it on to some poor sucker who may be a relative newcomer and be put off, assuming that the problems are caused by his/her lack of ability.
I have an old Acorn No3, which is not used, and I will see if that frog will fit, so at least I can make some comparison.
Otherwise, I would welcome any comments/advice as to what else might be causing these problems.

Frog not sitting flat.
Blade adjuster not being central.
Chip breaker not central to blade.
Lateral adjuster out of shape.
All will put the lateral adjuster on the angle rather than straight up.

Am I right, the blade will not cut a rebate, left hand the blade won't go to the outside of the cheek. RH side the blade sticks out beyond the cheek.
Assuming the blade is good, equal on both sides, measured from the slot.
Then the frog is at fault, either not central to sole (sole cheeks are equal thickness?) or badly made off centre.

Bod

When you find the fault please let us know.

 

[Bedrock]

tbone - thanks for the input. This started off as a query because one plane in one of my plane cupboards (!) seems to rust rather more than the others, and I have had a very helpful all round response.
Regrettably, in has now turned into full blown OCD on my part, as the wretched thing has really got to me, and I am determined to get to the bottom of what is causing the problem, which is best summed up by Bod's last para.
After some more work over the weekend, I have identified some of the problems.
1. the blade cut out is out of square by about 1mm. across the sole, being short on the RH side.
2. the sole is out of square by a small amount against both sides, the gap being on the LH side.
3. the frog may be out as suggested by David C, but is more difficult to check.
4. I have already referred to the out of centre lateral adjuster and the off line frog fixing slots.
All this I think is cumulative, hence my inability to get the blade to project on the LH side so that I cannot cut a clean rebate on that side, and the only way I can get the blade square with the sole is for the lateral adjuster to be outboard, RH side by about 15 degrees. It is useable only in a very restricted way, but does highlight the sort of problems which arise for the unwary. It makes spending a bit more on kit from the better makers a sensible course, unless you have enough experience to identify the problems and the time and skills to correct them.
Vann has set out some excellent suggested remedies which I will pursue in spare moments, and report back if anyone is still interested, or chuck it away and get on with the rest of my life!
Mike

 

[Bod]

Man, have you got a friday afternoon one there!

Bod