Royal lac finish

[PeterF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnYD1n41 ... ata_player

I am a guitar maker from Pembrokeshire, Wales. I have just been made aware of this product by Robbie O'Brien, who is a very well respected american luthier. He recommends it very highly as it has the look, feel and ease of application of shellac, but the toughness and longevity of a polyester finish. It can be brushed, padded or sprayed on and can be polished out to a very high gloss. Obviously it would be perfect as a furniture finish as well as for guitars.
Unfortunately it is not available in the UK at this time, but I have been in contact with the manufacturer and they can ship it over here in large quantities at a reasonable cost. Before buying, I need to know whether there would be a demand for it. So would you be interested?

 

[PeterF]

I'm not sure if this counts as advertising. If it is against the rules, I will remove it. :?

 

[marcros]

the link doesn't seem to work.

is it comparable to shellac in price?

 

[Kalimna]

I too have been following this discussion on Robbie's mailing list/discussion. Depending on the price, I may be interested. Please keep us informed.

Cheers,
Adam

 

[Phil Pascoe]

No. The video doesn't exist.

 

[PeterF]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnYD1n41 ... ata_player

Sorry about the link. I'll try again!

 

[PeterF]

I am currently waiting for more specifics from the manufacturer, so I cannot say anything about prices yet. I will let you know as soon as possible.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Peter I am a little sceptical about the claims for this polish. If it is new to the market, how do they know it will not crack in time? Resin type finishes need feeding periodically with a wax otherwise they dry out and start to crack and flake. There are advantages and disadvantages to all finishes whether they be resin or lacquer. The big disadvantage to most modern lacquers is that they are non reversable so if there is a problem down the line you may have to strip the whole finish off and start again. Shellacs are not quite as hard as lacquers but they are not far off, they are reversable therefore easy to restore even if they do crack. In my experiance most damage to guitars is caused by impact when the guitar falls over or something is dropped onto it and it is in fact the harder lacquers that come off worse in this situation. A lacquer will shatter with impact and can be very hard to put right.
I think a good quality shellac is a great finish for a guitar and if you want one that is easier to apply there are many modified shellacs you can buy over here that I am sure will give you a good lasting finish. Check out W.S. jenkins and their brushing polishes and varnishes.

 

[MIGNAL]

It is actually quite rare for Shellac to show signs of cracking. Nitro Cellulose does have a big reputation for cracking though. In fact I have quite literally seen dozens and dozens of examples. From some that show the odd crack that appears to be in the wood (it's actually a finish crack) to those that are full blown craquelure. It's almost certainly caused by the finish becoming too hard and brittle, not flexing with the wood surface beneath. You get a similar effect with putting a hard finish on top of a softer finish. Fat to lean, as the Violin finishers term it.
The Royal Lac appears to be a modified Shellac, possibly fortified with a synthetic resin. The Jenkins stuff may well be very similar in it's nature.

 

[PeterF]

Peter I am a little sceptical about the claims for this polish. If it is new to the market, how do they know it will not crack in time? Resin type finishes need feeding periodically with a wax otherwise they dry out and start to crack and flake. There are advantages and disadvantages to all finishes whether they be resin or lacquer. The big disadvantage to most modern lacquers is that they are non reversable so if there is a problem down the line you may have to strip the whole finish off and start again. Shellacs are not quite as hard as lacquers but they are not far off, they are reversable therefore easy to restore even if they do crack. In my experiance most damage to guitars is caused by impact when the guitar falls over or something is dropped onto it and it is in fact the harder lacquers that come off worse in this situation. A lacquer will shatter with impact and can be very hard to put right.
I think a good quality shellac is a great finish for a guitar and if you want one that is easier to apply there are many modified shellacs you can buy over here that I am sure will give you a good lasting finish. Check out W.S. jenkins and their brushing polishes and varnishes.

Thank you very much for the reply. This is the sort of information I was looking for as I am trying to gauge whether it would be worth it to import it here.
It is not the ease of application that I am looking for so much as the resistance do scratches, chemicals, sweat and moisture. This finish supposedly is as durable as a polyester finish, without needing all the expensive equipment to apply it. It is this combination of durability and simplicity that seems to be unique. However if there are any other finishes that can do the same, I would be glad if someone could point me to them - I have been looking for it for years!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I risk being laughed at here as I know nothing of musical instruments, but someone has to have tried Rustins Plastic Coating? If it'll stand 25 yrs of knocks and chemicals on a bar counter...

 

[MIGNAL]

:shock: Rustins. . . . PLASTIC. . . coating . . .
Sorry Phil but even the cheapest gutter grade Chinese factories are shaking their heads in absolute disgust at that suggestion!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Out of interest - have you ever tried it, or are you baulking at the name?

 

[MIGNAL]

I have tried it. Many, many years ago. I don't remember much about it to be honest - does it come it two parts?
Anyway, it's not something that concerns me. Steel string Guitar makers want a bullet proof finish and usually very flat and very glossy. Not really the kind of finish that I like. I don't make steel string instruments. I'm quite happy using Shellac, French Polished or brushed on.

 

[PeterF]

I risk being laughed at here as I know nothing of musical instruments, but someone has to have tried Rustins Plastic Coating? If it'll stand 25 yrs of knocks and chemicals on a bar counter...

I have actually considered it! For an acoustic guitar though, you need the thinnest, lightest, least sound dampening finish possible and RPC goes on pretty thick apparently.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It's not going to be as thin as shellac, but get some and try it on something else. It's knock resistant, and you can polish it to any shine you wish, french polish or matt, and you can cut it back easily if you over polish. If you get a run in it, leave it dry before worrying about it and sand it out - any damage to it is easily repairable. Don't use more than three coats in 24hrs.

Mignal - I was thinking run of the mill "thrown about" electrics, not top notch acoustics. I have always wondered how much good Rustins did themselves by calling it "plastic" - it probably isn't that much different to many other products.

 

[Woodfinish Man]

After testing we can categorically say that Rustin's Plastic coating is simply a 2 pack Acid Catalyst Lacquer.

As for modified shellacs, there are quite a range out there, some have 5% shellac and 95% cellulose which others can be 95% shellac and 5% cellulose.

 

[PeterF]

Just to update this, I'm afraid I have found that it will not be economical to import this product to Europe. The shipping to the UK, plus the local shipping just push the costs too high to be worth it.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Peter, what are your skill levels re finishing? can you fad up and spirit off or do you tend to brush on and then cut and buff? I ask because it can make a difference as to the shellacs you can use.

 

[MIGNAL]

Why? I can brush or fad just about every Shellac type available, unless you are referring to Shellacs that have been laced?