Router plane

[deema]

If you ordered it online you have 14 days to ask to return it for your money back. That’s not to return it, just to state you want to return it. You are then obliged to return it within a reasonable period. So, if your not satisfied, send it back and try another brand.

 

[TheTiddles]

Does anyone know what Veritas’ tolerance is for sole flatness. I’ve received the plane. Looks wise and feel wise, it’s incredible. However, checking the sole for flatness, I can comfortably get a 0.05mm feeler gauge under the front right over a wide area. Is this a problem?I suspect, the gap is around 0.07mm I’m surprised that this is the case. I , rightly or wrongly, assumed veritas worked to the same tolerance as lie Nielsen. Clearly, this is not the case.

Have you thought about what that tolerance means to the thing you’re making? Unless I’m misunderstanding how a router plane is used, that difference could translate into a difference in cut depth either side of a rebate of something like 0.005mm, what are you making where that’s a problem?

 

[Chris Hawkins]

Hi, I have the Veritas Router Plane and have used it infrequently for 3 years or so and always get the results I expect. I have never measured the base for flatness, but if I did and got the same results as you I would be delighted. I cannot imagine how the figures you are talking about could have any impact on my work (and I am picky). I also use an Incra LS positioner system with an incra router lift. 0.05mm is just about the best tolerance I could hope for in any axis/dimension - certainly the vertical one. I am no expert (nor do I want to be), but I suspect that greater variances are introduced by other factors such as flex in the shaft and locking mechanism?

 

[Zag73]

Your talking about 50 microns or 2 thou in old money. I doubt that either LN or LV have their castings stress relieved for this plane, so after machining they can move as that tolerance for the application perfectly acceptable. Most router planes get a large wooden base screwed into them which I’m sure will have been planned down to less than 50 microns flatness, equally the surface it’s being used on to register to it will definitely be less than 50 microns flatness especially if it’s been standing a few hours / over night. Ok that’s all tongue in cheek, to try to highlight that it’s only usually in metalwork we’re 50 microns can become an issue.

As an aside, I found that the LN castings on some planes I’ve worked with have been as soft as soap. Had to have one of my own planes replaced because of it.

I don’t have the same opinion as Derek, I believe that if there had been a design right filed on the shape of these planes, both LV and LN would be in breach……there both in my opinion just tweaked copies of the Stanley / Record, so its a free for all, open season for anyone to manufacture of the same style. The one thing I’ve found with both LN and LV is their customer back up has been outstanding and their stuff holds it’s value.

I guess it‘s more that it’s sold as a premium plane but machined to lower standards than cheaper planes. So, I kind of feel fleeced. I’ve two woodriver planes , a jack ans a block, and theyre flat on the sole to within 0.0015” when referenced against a grade 0 granite slab. If woodriver can achieve this tolerance, why can’t Veritas? It’s all down to the machinery? For me, from my own limited experience, the argument that the Chinese make crappy products is nonsense. An instance of another boutique brand.

 

[Zag73]

Have you thought about what that tolerance means to the thing you’re making? Unless I’m misunderstanding how a router plane is used, that difference could translate into a difference in cut depth either side of a rebate of something like 0.005mm, what are you making where that’s a problem?

a valid point.

 

[deema]

I guess it‘s more that it’s sold as a premium plane but machined to lower standards than cheaper planes. So, I kind of feel fleeced. I’ve two woodriver planes , a jack ans a block, and theyre flat on the sole to within 0.0015” when referenced against a grade 0 granite slab. If woodriver can achieve this tolerance, why can’t Veritas? It’s all down to the machinery? For me, from my own limited experience, the argument that the Chinese make crappy products is nonsense. An instance of another boutique brand.

Oooooo a grade zero granite surface table……..please don’t tell me it’s pink granite as well that would be my dream for a proper reference table!

It won’t be the machining, it will be the casting moving as it’s not been stress relieved or stress relieved properly thats causing it to move after machining.

I’m no metallurgist, but from experience old cast iron castings seem to be denser, better cast (few if any occlusions ) and properly stress relieved. That’s probably one of the reasons why old hand planes are sought after. it could also be that the Friday made tools haven’t survived…..but considering a hand plane used to cost a weeks wages, I’m sure the buyer would want a quality product.

 

[Zag73]

Oooooo a grade zero granite surface table……..please don’t tell me it’s pink granite as well that would be my dream for a proper reference table!

It won’t be the machining, it will be the casting moving as it’s not been stress relieved or stress relieved properly thats causing it to move after machining.

I’m no metallurgist, but from experience old cast iron castings seem to be denser, better cast (few if any occlusions ) and properly stress relieved. That’s probably one of the reasons why old hand planes are sought after. it could also be that the Friday made tools haven’t survived…..but considering a hand plane used to cost a weeks wages, I’m sure the buyer would want a quality product.

sorry to disappoint, it’s boring black. Very reasonably priced too from Axminster. The tolerance may be fine but it’s the feeling of having paid a premium price but received something that’s not as flat as a cheaper plane. To be fair, in the hand, it feels incredible. I can certainly see why people on here have recommended it. But it’s just that niggling that my cheaper planes are flatter. I guess a bit of ocd too.

 

[Zag73]

Hi, I have the Veritas Router Plane and have used it infrequently for 3 years or so and always get the results I expect. I have never measured the base for flatness, but if I did and got the same results as you I would be delighted. I cannot imagine how the figures you are talking about could have any impact on my work (and I am picky). I also use an Incra LS positioner system with an incra router lift. 0.05mm is just about the best tolerance I could hope for in any axis/dimension - certainly the vertical one. I am no expert (nor do I want to be), but I suspect that greater variances are introduced by other factors such as flex in the shaft and locking mechanism?

Should have mentioned , it’s out somewhere between 0.05 and 0.1. A 0.05 feeler slides under comfortably. No resistance whatsoever.

 

[TheTiddles]

Oooooo a grade zero granite surface table……..please don’t tell me it’s pink granite as well that would be my dream for a proper reference table!

It won’t be the machining, it will be the casting moving as it’s not been stress relieved or stress relieved properly thats causing it to move after machining.

I’m no metallurgist, but from experience old cast iron castings seem to be denser, better cast (few if any occlusions ) and properly stress relieved. That’s probably one of the reasons why old hand planes are sought after. it could also be that the Friday made tools haven’t survived…..but considering a hand plane used to cost a weeks wages, I’m sure the buyer would want a quality product.

Do you have any data to support that? I’m pretty certain the density of cast iron hasn’t changed much in the last few thousand years. A new Record plane looks awfully similar to an old Record plane, a new Veritas looks a whole lot better.

 

[Zag73]

Do you have any data to support that? I’m pretty certain the density of cast iron hasn’t changed much in the last few thousand years. A new Record plane looks awfully similar to an old Record plane, a new Veritas looks a whole lot better.

A veritas may look better. But is it flatter?

 

[jameswood]

Why try this brand? Are they better than veritas ? If so, in what way? Genuinely interested.

I think the main difference is that the Preston type models have a larger base and its party piece is the ability to move the cutter to different positions, useful for some situations like working on narrow pieces or flattening large tenons. I struggled with my stanley doing this even with a base screwed on. The review here shows this around 2:25

I haven't used a Veritas router, but the walke moore is very well made. It doesn't come with as many cutters as the others which is a small negative

 

[Zag73]

I think the main difference is that the Preston type models have a larger base and its party piece is the ability to move the cutter to different positions, useful for some situations like working on narrow pieces or flattening large tenons. I struggled with my stanley doing this even with a base screwed on. The review here shows this around 2:25

I haven't used a Veritas router, but the walke moore is very well made. It doesn't come with as many cutters as the others which is a small negative

Oh wow. Good that one of the handles can be placed in the centre when cleaning tenons. I’ll look into this router further. Many thanks for sharing.

 

[JobandKnock]

I have a feeling 200 years ago, there was in immediate need for apprentices to become useful and all basic function and basic design was understood quickly.

Not really. Apprentices were regarded as cheap, unskilled or semi-skilled labour and often would get the boring, repetitive stuff - like rough dimensioning stock, surface planing, sharpening stuff, at least for the first couple of years. Prove that you were any good at anything and could work fast enough (always a requirement) and they'd switch you to another task, and so on. You were expected to watch and learn and not ask too many pointless questions. Don't ask how I know that

I have to laugh when people start fretting about flatness in microns, though, if only because of the way wood reacts to atmospheric changes

 

[Zag73]

Well, to finish off my story, ordered a lie Nielsen. Flatness no better than veritas. But definitely sound advice received on here. The Veritas has the edge in terms of feel and functionality. Decided to keep the Veritas plane. I’ve fallen , once again , into the internet obsession with complete flatness of plane soles. As one chap on this thread asked, what was I making that needed to be so precise…..absolutely nothing. Common sense always wins in the end. Thank you all for your help.