Router Bit for French style Mouldings

[acacia.woodwork]

Hi all,

My wife and I bought some Cotswoldco "Chantilly" furniture (example below) a while back. I'm looking to make some matching furniture with similar moulding detailing so it's consistent with the Cotswoldco stuff.

The top is just a piece of MDF with a chamfer on the bottom half. I'm more interested in the moulding strip just below it, which seems to be about 50mm ish tall, containing a rounded top, followed by a gentle curve.

I have a Router Table with a 1/2 inch router, I just need to find the right cutter. Has anyone seen a 1/2 inch router bit that might do the job?

I think I'd expect a cutter to look something along the lines of

 

[Doug71]

I doubt you will find a router cutter to do that in one hit, you will probably need to buy at least 2 cutters to get it something like.

Something like the vertical raised panel cutter T5214 from Wealden might be a good start for the cove

https://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Vertical_200.html

 

[TRITON]

I doubt you will find a router cutter to do that in one hit, you will probably need to buy at least 2 cutters to get it something like.

Something like the vertical raised panel cutter T5214 from Wealden might be a good start for the cove

https://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Vertical_200.html

Yeah, looks like a radiused panel raising cutter with a simple round over on the top.
https://www.axminstertools.com/axcaliber-radiused-panel-raising-cutter-666212

Not for handheld routing, specifically in the router table.

 

[acacia.woodwork]

Thanks both, it seems like it’s a 2 cutter job. This would be for my half inch router in a pretty decent sized router table so i’m covered in that sense.

I did find this which would work on a smaller scale https://www.axminstertools.com/axcaliber-edge-moulding-router-cutter-3-666196
Its just a shame they don't do one with less of the beading (which id likely have to cut off)

 

[Cabinetman]

Haven’t come across it but it might be worth checking if it’s an off the shelf moulding. Huge variety available online.

 

[deema]

That’s a job for a spindle moulder with a custom made cutter. You will get an exact match. Depending on height of the moulding your looking at c£60~£120 for the set of cutter & limiters.

 

[acacia.woodwork]

Haven’t come across it but it might be worth checking if it’s an off the shelf moulding. Huge variety available online.

Are there some good suppliers/sites for off the shelf mouldings you could recommend please?
Ive got a week away soon so plenty of time to scroll through some product listings

 

[Cabinetman]

Sorry I’m in the States at the mo, but there are a gazillion to browse through. This one in the centre could be adapted for instance, and the page went on for ever lol.
Put in wood mouldings and look in images. (Sorry if it’s granny’s eggs)

 

[TRITON]

That’s a job for a spindle moulder with a custom made cutter. You will get an exact match. Depending on height of the moulding your looking at c£60~£120 for the set of cutter & limiters.

Does that include the cost of a spindle moulder too ?

I wouldnt think that bit of cabinet moulding is any more than 50mm deep. So the cutter in my link is going to do about 30mm, then i would change that for a non bearing guided version of the same cutter.

 

[Inspector]

Since you are only talking about a few pieces of furniture you have a couple options over and above or in combination with the router.

First consider doing it with hand planes and sandpaper. Look for a wood plane with a round bottom that will plane a round bottomed groove. Sometimes you can find them as hollows and rounds. That will let you shape the large gentle curve and you follow with a small hollow for the smaller radius. You can also make that small radius with a regular plane by making a number of facets. Then you use the sandpaper to blend them all together.

Second is to use your table saw to cut the cove. Clamp a board at an angle in front of the blade and behind. You start with the blade barely above the table and you push the board across the blade, always into the teeth from the front, never from the back of the saw. A lip on both guide boards will also keep it in the "chute". USE PUSH STICKS! Your second pass is with the blade raised a few millimetres and so on until the cove is cut. You push the wood slowly over the saw blade to get a better finish which you cleanup with sandpaper.

A few links to calculators to help with the setting of the candles of the guide boards.

https://woodgears.ca/cove/

http://www.thewoodpecker.net/cove/cove.htm

Safety Note: Don't do this without the blade being covered either with a crown guard if it can accommodate the guide boards or attach a board over the cutting area to the guide boards to keep your fingers away. I recommend you clamp the guide boards to the saw at both ends.

Pete

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Second is to use your table saw to cut the cove. Clamp a board at an angle in front of the blade and behind. You start with the blade barely above the table and you push the board across the blade, always into the teeth from the front, never from the back of the saw. A lip on both guide boards will also keep it in the "chute". USE PUSH STICKS! Your second pass is with the blade raised a few millimetres and so on until the cove is cut. You push the wood slowly over the saw blade to get a better finish which you cleanup with sandpaper.

A few links to calculators to help with the setting of the candles of the guide boards.

Hmm, Pete? Whilst that's a technique or practice favoured in your part of the world I'm afraid it's the sort of thing that tends to fly like a lead balloon over here. When I moved to and lived in Texas for a period and came across the method you pointed us towards I remember thinking to myself it looked like desperately inspired lunacy. The main reason for that being my opinion was the set up never seemed to involve any sort of guarding or hold downs, except for the operator passing the wood over the blade with a shoe type pusher. I've got to admit that my opinion of the methodology hasn't changed much over the last couple of decades.

Of course, if any amateur woodworkers over here want to use the technique, that's up to them, but I wouldn't recommend it. Professionals really should look elsewhere for creating such mouldings. Slainte.

 

[TRITON]

Of course, if any amateur woodworkers over here want to use the technique, that's up to them, but I wouldn't recommend it. Professionals really should look elsewhere for creating such mouldings. Slainte.

Having worked as a professional I feel I have to disagree with that.

You should see the things we are willing to do to get a job done and tbh if the table saw moulding technique ensured we could do a big moulding then we wouldnt hesitate to do it. I havent, but if i needed to make a large cove I'd happily give it a go.


As an experienced furniture maker I would examine the process, and look to fully guard the process, and work through how i would do that with the pluses and minuses of the dangers involved. I mean ever used a ring fence ?. JEEZUS thats a scary technique, especially on smallish curved sections. The chances of a snatch and pooing yourself are pretty high, and its 110% concentration and compared to cove cutting on a saw, I know which one I'd be happier doing.


OP I dont think is a professional cabinetmaker, furniture-maker or wood machinist, and has stated he has a router and router table, so advanced techniques on the table saw or anything isnt what he's looking to give a go to.

So with a router and router table, cutting whats effectively a partial panel mould can be achieved without too much trouble. And fact he's come in to ask whats best, Im sure he would further ask how best to set up a router table to cut a deeper panel moulding, especially if it involved more fence position than with a bearing guided cutter. But either way cutting it on a router table is a lot safer, especially as you(OP) understands the process and the use of hold downs or feather boards, a guarding system etc.
And if he's not Im sure we can all suggest how he would go about it.

 

[acacia.woodwork]

Cheers for the support all.

Ive had a good search for off the shelf mouldings online without much luck. There seems to be lots of more detailed options that I could potentially adapt, but nothing quite right.
It amazes me it’s not a standard pattern given how common it is on furniture, and how simple the design is.

I don't have a Spindle Moulder unfortunately so will have to stick with other options.
I think as a starter ill try the panel raiser bit + roundover route, as my router table setup is a lot safer to use (in my view) for this kind of thing than my contractor table saw.
Would love to give the table saw route a go though, but I may need to watch some videos first

 

[Doug71]

I recall the making coving on a table saw technique being discussed in the past and this quote from doctor Bob (once of this parish) stuck in my mind, "Most who do this have curly teeth and have married their sister".

 

[acacia.woodwork]

I recall the making coving on a table saw technique being discussed in the past and this quote from doctor Bob (once of this parish) stuck in my mind, "Most who do this have curly teeth and have married their sister".

Im sure the same could be said of many things in life

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Of course, if any amateur woodworkers over here want to use the technique, that's up to them, but I wouldn't recommend it. Professionals really should look elsewhere for creating such mouldings. Slainte.

Having worked as a professional I feel I have to disagree with that.

I suppose I should concede that your extensive professional experience outranks my amateur and ill-informed burbling.

Sorry I spoke and I'll be mindful of my inexperience in the future, especially my lack of experience in the use of woodworking machinery, when proffering advice to fellow inexperienced wood machining hacks.

I mean ever used a ring fence ?. JEEZUS thats a scary technique, especially on smallish curved sections. The chances of a snatch and pooing yourself are pretty high, and its 110% concentration and compared to cove cutting on a saw, I know which one I'd be happier doing.

A ring fence? I've never come across such a device. What's it for and why are you likely to poo yourself? It couldn't be because you don't really know how to use one safely, could it? Slainte.

 

[TRITON]

I suppose I should concede that your extensive professional experience outranks my amateur and ill-informed burbling.

Sorry I spoke and I'll be mindful of my inexperience in the future, especially my lack of experience in the use of woodworking machinery, when proffering advice to fellow inexperienced wood machining hacks.

A ring fence? I've never come across such a device. What's it for and why are you likely to poo yourself? It couldn't be because you don't really know how to use one safely, could it? Slainte.

Sarcasm ? Yeah whatever you say mate. :

 

[Cabinetman]

Sarcasm ? Yeah whatever you say mate. :

I suggest you press the green link at the bottom of Richard's posts.

 

[TRITON]

I suggest you press the green link at the bottom of Richard's posts.

Did that, but what was I expected to see ?

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Sarcasm ? Yeah whatever you say mate. :

Sarcasm. Of course. You say you are a professional, and indicate that it might be good for me "to see the things we are willing to do to get a job done " That doesn't fill me with confidence. It suggests you're willing to cut corners and compromise safety in a production environment. Then you reinforce the impression that your work practices lack something regarding safety by talking about how using a ring fence can be scary, poo scary for you, in fact. Sure, using a ring fence can be butt clenching if you realise that that operation to achieve what you want to achieve is inappropriate and risky (unsafe) but do it anyway, or you can't, won't, or don't know how to set up ring fence operations with jigs and fixtures so that they are safe.

Decades ago I evaluated the use of a table saw in the way suggested by Inspector (Pete) to create mouldings, and rejected it as low on safety, slow, and tedious. There are machines much better suited to the task, e.g., a spindle moulder or table router.

So yes, sarcasm because you earned it. Slainte.