Rough sawn timber

[markblue777]

Hi all,
The small amount of hardwood timber I have bought from my local wood merchant has been cut to finished sizes, but I was wondering if there is a saving to get it just rough sawn and then trim and plane it up to the finished length my self?

Also, how do I go about asking for it rough sawn would I just say for example "100mm by 25mm 5 foot length rough sawn". I know a silly question but just getting into buying more timber.

I understand quarter sawn timber is more expensive but a bit more stable, is it worth the extra investment to make things such as jewellery boxes (or would just crown cut be sufficient) or is it only really worth it for tv cabinets and/or tables (i.e larger items)

Thanks
Mark

 

[Chrispy]

Yes, Yes, and maybe. a small amount of quartered wood should be just a matter of selecting the right board from a selection, if you need a whole pack/lorry load of quartered timber then expect to pay for the yard to sort through piles and piles of wood for you. very few sawmills actually cut purely quarter sawn timber, you just want the center board.

 

[marcros]

Mark,

It depends on a number of factors...

If you buy it planed up, you can see the grain of what you are buying and can readily see sapwood, defects etc. It should have nice square edges, so net result is that it could produce less wastage. And it costs more.

As to whether it offers a saving, to buy sawn stock and plane it yourself... You will have the equipment cost, which also takes up space. But it offers you a lot more possibilities. You can thin a piece down, produce whatever thicknesses you need for a project, and the timber itself will cost less. Doing it by hand may be cheaper, but takes longer.

As for quarter sawn, or not- that depends a great deal on how items might move. I dont think it is necessary for jewellery boxes, but sometimes the quarter sawing gives interesting grain patters- lacewood, cherry, elm, zebrano are all examples that look entirely differently when Q/S compared to crown cut. Oak shows the rays off- some people like this, some people not. horses for courses!

When you buy sawn timber, it usually comes in random width boards with the bark on one or both sides- depending on the tree width.

A table top may be more appropriate in QS, although if you prefer the look of crown cut, the design can accommodate this. The only places it is essential is where movement must be minimised or it will cause problems- take a wooden plane body for instance.

Hope that helps
Mark

 

[markblue777]

Hi Chrispy,
Thanks for the swift reply. will be putting it to use soon haha
Mark

 

[markblue777]

Hi marcros
Thanks for the details, raised a good point about seeing defects and that early instead of doing a load of work planing only to find them later.

Cheers
Mark

 

[marcros]

to be honest, it isnt normally that much of an issue, and i would buy sawn, having got the machines to clean it up. But where sapwood is not desirable or grain pattern is important, it can be an advantage to be able to see exactly what you will see in the finished items.

When I plane something, I have a look after each pass, same with thicknessing. Normally defects do not suddenly appear, you can often see them in the sawn stock. The issues that I have sometimes had is boards like pippy oak, where it is a bit thick so you thickness it, and you end up with a pip that looked nicer when it was at almost full thickness. Also staining where you hope that by finished thickness it will have gone and you find out it was a bit deeper than expected.

If you have the space for a planer thicknesser, and a bit of money to buy one, I would recommend it. If you are working on a balcony, and are skint, it is by no means essential to a project. You will find that most places will have to plane timber up to order, if they offer the service, so it is just easier to do yourself. It isn't a lot of work, even if you do discover a defect and have to do another board.

 

[markblue777]

Ok thanks, Not got the room at the moment for a planer thicknesser but its on a list to buy when I do have the room. So hand plane and electric plane is all I have so maybe its worth it to just get it done at my wood merchants (unless it is that much difference in cost).

Cheers, for the info macros, much appreciated

Mark

 

[Rhossydd]

so maybe its worth it to just get it done at my wood merchants (unless it is that much difference in cost).

The first obvious thing to do is ask how much their service costs. Then you'll be able to assess if it's worth that much to you.

Buying sawn can be much cheaper, but as others have said, judging what you're buying can be much harder. I assume most of us that do buy sawn, buy in bigger quantities than your example, so aren't so concerned that the saving of buying sawn might be partially lost through higher wastage.

The key thing is to find merchants that offer the sort of timber you want.
I was impressed by Deep in Wood's approach to small scale hardwood sales to small users/hobbyists. The timber is sawn, but planed on just one side to reveal what's inside. The saving of sawn, but less risk.

 

[blackrodd]

Ok thanks, Not got the room at the moment for a planer thicknesser but its on a list to buy when I do have the room. So hand plane and electric plane is all I have so maybe its worth it to just get it done at my wood merchants (unless it is that much difference in cost).

Cheers, for the info macros, much appreciated

Mark

Down here we expect to pay from £30.00+vat for any machining done, so quite a saving to be had DIY.
But I would certainly consider getting the oak cut to you're nominal sizes, then, should the stuff "fly" or spring to a bad shape through stresses inside, then I would hope that they would cut more to replace the rejected stuff.
then you can plane and finish it you're self, and you don't have a load of expensive reject firewood.
HTH Regards Rodders

 

[Otto]

No matter how well you sort through the bale you take a chance with defects in rough sawn hardwoods. I've had maple with sticker marks, sapele that all looked the same on the outside but ranged from chocolate to red to salmon pink, oak where one plank is totally different from another, and walnut with knots and wormholes. I wish my timber merchant would carry s2s, it would save a lot of cursing.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

One thing missed in this discussion is the off cuts bin. My local hardwood supplier has an off cuts bin into which only min 1M lengths are thrown. They're always the warped end or the twist or the defect. Always rough sawn and always hardwoods. If your project isn't enormous in scale like a wardrobe, this is a veritable treasure trove of useful timber (but of course you need to dimension yourself). It's certainly a whole heap cheaper than the regular sawn or PAR stock and for smaller stuff I find really useful. I've had oak, ash, iroko, beech and black walnut from this pile many times. It's always ignored by the commercial guys cos its too much hassle (time) to mess with but for a home user its gold dust at very cheap rates.

 

[JustBen]

The timber merchant where I get my hardwood from is very helpful.
They are happy for me to rummage through the piles of timber.
They often put planed boards back onto the sawn stacks where a customer has changed their mind or the wrong size has been selected.
It means I can sometimes get the planing done for free but it's pot luck.
It's a lot cheaper to buy sawn and the boards are well stored and 99% of the time have no warping/cupping/bowing.

Having said that, I've been to other merchants who sell almost all bananas.... And charge more for them.

I think merchants are a bit hit and miss. Some are happy for you to rummage for 30 minutes and only buy 1 board., others get grumpy of you're in there for more than 2 minutes and get even grumpier when you're not buying a whole stack.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

agreed....I've had a range of experiences too. The closer they are to being primarily a builders merchants the worse I find them. The smaller family run businesses are often the best but where I live they've all been gobbled up by the Travis perkins types....a real shame. Fewer and fewer brown overalls where you can ask for....Fork handles!