Rough Noise Tablesaw

[wcndave]

Well, the rattling stopped and the blade does not turn any more...

I noticed the blade turns freely even with a screwdriver the in stop hole, so i turned it upside down and had a look.

Picture 1:

shows the motor and blade spindles

The end of the blade spindle had come off, along with the belt.

The blade spindle close up look like this

there is obviously something that goes into that slot to drive the spindle, however from the exploded parts diagram cannot tell what it is, or how it is fixed.

I found on the floor the items here in picture 3,

looks like the washer was attached to the lower piece and this drives it, however they have sheared off.

i think they may be fixed with the hex bolt, however not sure, as it seems rather small...

also the inside of the belt head part looks very concave where there is a step for the washer to sit on, hard to see from picture, however it it's as though the washer has curved and ground into it over time.

I have emailed NMA, however last time they told me to contact my local (Italian) supplier, who basically does not deal with public, so had to go through the only trade distributer locally, who speaks no English, and I speak no Italian, so after a few months, i gave up on my particular need at the time... (replacement part for Scheppach bandsaw..)

hopefully NMA UK will come through for me this time!

 

[kirkpoore1]

Dave (it is Dave, isn't it?):

That ain't good. I mean, I need to confirm what I'm looking at, but it's bad even before I confirm.

First, from what it looks like, I think you have a poly-v belt on this saw, from what I can see of the motor pulley. You used to have an arbor pulley on the arbor (blade spindle). The keyway (slot) on the arbor is wallowed out. The arbor pulley, which is not shown, should have gone over the arbor and had a keyway matching the keyway in the arbor. The key, a rectangular piece of soft metal, would have spanned both the keyways so the pulley wouldn't rotate on the arbor, and there would have been a set screw through the side (belt face) of the pulley, pressing down on the key and holding the pulley tight on the arbor.

Can you post a picture of your parts diagram? It would make it easier to explain. I couldn't find one on line.

Is this your arbor pulley?

In this picture, I may be way off because of the scale, but I think your set screw is the item at the 12 o'clock position, the very battered key is at the 5 o'clock position, and what looks like an old destroyed washer in the 9 o'clock position.

If the washer went inside the pulley, as I think you said, I don't know what was holding it on. There doesn't look to be a hole in the end of the arbor for that bolt to screw into.

Edit: Does that bolt go into the end of the arbor? If so (and thus it's not a set screw), maybe that destroyed washer had a key slot in the outer rim too. If your bolt got loose, the key might have vibrated out and allowed your pulley to wobble, causing the noise and eventually trashing the washer.

My best guess is that you're going to need a new arbor, washer, and key at the very least and possibly a new pulley. With the arbor you'll likely want new bearings. Check your belt too. This isn't a real hard fix for an experienced person with the right tools, but for the first timer it will be more, shall I say, of a learning experience.

Kirk

 

[wcndave]

First, from what it looks like, I think you have a poly-v belt on this saw, from what I can see of the motor pulley.

The keyway (slot) on the arbor is wallowed out.

I assume wallowed means that a square keyslot became a rounded out mess... how this happened not sure, as its not on the side that drives the blade, this would have mashed the other side. in the picture it goes anti-clockwise and if the motor was too strong, or the blade getting stuck in tough wood, then it would have mashed the other side....

see this picture from the top of the arbour

and this from side

Can you post a picture of your parts diagram? It would make it easier to explain. I couldn't find one on line.

This is the best i can do at the moment.

Is this your arbor pulley?

Yes it is.

If the washer went inside the pulley, as I think you said, I don't know what was holding it on. There doesn't look to be a hole in the end of the arbor for that bolt to screw into.

Does that bolt go into the end of the arbor? If so (and thus it's not a set screw), maybe that destroyed washer had a key slot in the outer rim too. If your bolt got loose, the key might have vibrated out and allowed your pulley to wobble, causing the noise and eventually trashing the washer.

yes the bolt at 12 fits into the end of the arbour

My best guess is that you're going to need a new arbor, washer, and key at the very least and possibly a new pulley. With the arbor you'll likely want new bearings. Check your belt too. This isn't a real hard fix for an experienced person with the right tools, but for the first timer it will be more, shall I say, of a learning experience.

replacing he washer and key thing, ok, replacing the arbour, hmm, replacing bearing and requiring tools / experience, not sure i want to go there on such an expensive piece of kit......

thanks for the tips, much appreciated!

 

[wcndave]

NMA not being amazingly helpful yet, they asked me to look at the digram and tell them what parts I need...

see picture though...

 

[Mcluma]

YOU ARE NOT ALONE

This happend exactly the same two weeks ago to me

The pully came loose (probably due to extreme stop under full load spin)

the nut for the blade is counterclockwize so when using it doesn't come off, but when spinning full load, and an extreme stop happens the bold comes loose then the pully comes off - wobble and belt rips etc etc problems

I was fortunate enough to repair the pully / spline / nut / belt although i have bought a new betl as i want full balance in the machine

Good luck in finding the parts

 

[wcndave]

YOU ARE NOT ALONE
the nut for the blade is counterclockwize so when using it doesn't come off, but when spinning full load, and an extreme stop happens the bold comes loose then the pully comes off - wobble and belt rips etc etc problems

Thing that confuses me is that extreme stop, or overworking the saw, (perhaps due to wrong type of blade etc) would cause the other side of the arbor to be mashed, eg counter clockwise from the key-slot, as that is where the force would be.

I called NMA and they will try to work it out based on the pictures here, however, would you normally expect them to charge? I have probably done 100 hours on this machine only....

 

[Mcluma]

don't bother with that

What was you doing on the saw, ripping with a 60T or higher?

However, if you say 100 hours , nah that is to much that is 2 weeks full working ,so to much could have happend in that period of time

Look you have gotten this far, so you can repair it as well, take it as a lessen (like it did) and select the correct blade when doing the job

 

[wcndave]

But i don't know that was the cause... i do use a 48 tooth blade, and often don't change for ripping small pieces (less than 1" thick), and i never had a blade get stuck, or stop.

the problem started about 5 weeks ago, and slowly got worse, was not one incident...

I hope i am able to repair it, as taking it in for "service and repairs" could be costly...

 

[kirkpoore1]

Wcndave:

It's quite possible that you could get away with just a new washer & key for now, if the pulley itself isn't damaged. Make sure the pulley fits snugly with no side to side wobble. If the pulley wobbles instead of fitting snugly, either the arbor or pully has been worn and you're going to need to replace one or both of them. If it does fit snugly, you may be able to use a file on the interior of the keyway on the arbor to get the sides squared up, then buy a slightly wider key and file it to shape to fit the pulley and arbor. Note that some keys are actually T-shaped to accomodate, for example, a pulley with one sized keyway and a shaft with a different size keyway. Filing will give you a similar setup. It will take a little while, but with care you should be fine.

Now, will this last forever? Maybe, but maybe not. Mcluma's post remineded me that I had a similar failure with a wallowed out keyway on a lunchbox thicknesser I used to own. The pulley was attached to the cutterhead using a bolt on the end of the head. That bolt would gradually loosen, allowing some wobble, and the keyway on the cutterhead gradually widened. I would tighten that bolt every few months, but eventually the end of the cutterhead became distorted and essentially wore out. I had to toss the thicknesser, since it just wasn't worth buying a new cutterhead to repair it.

Unless you keep that bolt tight, I think that's what you're in for, except replacing the arbor and perhaps the bearings would be a lot cheaper than a cutterhead.

BTW, is item 14 in your chart is the pulley? If so what are those apparent holes in the side?

Kirk

 

[wcndave]

BTW, is item 14 in your chart is the pulley? If so what are those apparent holes in the side?

It is the pulley yes, and they are "holes" i have no clue what for, they have no threads.... ah wait.... yes, they are so you can stick a screwdriver in the top of the table (there is a special hole) to that the blade does not rotate whilst you change it.

as far as i can see, the key is held in only by a washer above it, so not the best way.

I think there may be a tiny bit of wobble, however i might try making a key cos the worst that will happen has already happened...

 

[Mcluma]

from the pics

you need a new drive shart, spline, pully and belt, total arround the 100 to repair (my best ques)

Difficult level 1

if

 

[wcndave]

if....if what

how about....

wish i'd got a kity now, the Scheppach was supposed to be small footprint in my tiny UK shed, expandable when i needed it to be, superb build quality etc.. however the faff just to square the sliding table in all 3 planes, and that you have to take the ST off to make a quarter turn adjustment, then put back, then adjust against etc....and now this...

If i had known these were made in china, I would not have bought one...

 

[kirkpoore1]

if....if what

how about....

....
If i had known these were made in china, I would not have bought one...

We all learn these lessons sooner or later. In my case, it was buying a plastic-cased grinder with variable speed. The VS circuit board failed a month out of warranty, the part was going to be 2/3 the original cost of the grinder, and I damaged the case just getting it apart to see what was wrong. I took off the wheels and threw the rest in the trash, then bought a steel body, single-speed grinder for $20 more than I'd spent earlier. 21 years later, it's still going strong.

That being said, if you throw a little good money after the bad, and keep an eye on that pulley bolt, I think you'll be OK for a few years.

Kirk

 

[tomatwark]

If you do decide to repair it, I would put some thread lock on the bolt that holds the pulley on, this will help it to stop coming lose.

Tom

 

[wcndave]

Thanks to everyone for your posts, it's great to be a forum where "some blokes broken table saw" can get 3 pages of posts...

The upside for the week is that within 4 hours of getting my woodrat home, i had made finger joints and dovetail joints that fit perfectly, so something to be happy about...

now if only i could cut some wood to make more....

 

[Digit]

Everything as suggested above, plus check the cooling fan hasn't come loose.

Roy.

 

[wcndave]

I thought it fair that i should write what the outcome was, as last comment about NMA was not 100% positive.

So they need to send me an entire spindle assembly, which means no bearings etc, and should be simple to swap out, however it is over £100.

Cheaper than spending another £1k on a new TS!

This was done on March 23rd, and I am just waiting for it to be delivered. At 5kg i would expect it to take a couple of weeks, beginning to get to the point where i would have expected it to arrive, however i will give it another 2 weeks before making enquiries. The post here in Italy is pretty awful, so things sometimes do get stuck...

However once i was on phone to NMA they were very helpful, so thank you to them.

 

[wcndave]

So, I have received the new spindle and now just have to try to install it...

Apart from the fact that there are a bunch of hard to access and very tight bolts to undo, however my main problem is the rings that hold it on. they are the usual type with the two little eye holes, however no matter how hard I try, i can't get them off. you can see one in the picture, and to make matters worse there is one underneath the steel plate too...

I am not sure what they are called, however i am worried that if i try any harder i will bust the machine, or a gut, or both.

please see attached, any advice as to how to remove would be appreciated. (also you can see the mess the spindle has become, and also i notice now that there is a semi-circle gouged out of the underneath of the table! - god knows how that happened)

 

[knappers]

Those clips are called circlips, and can be very simply removed with a pair circlip pliers. A pair is not expensive to buy.

Si.

 

[kirkpoore1]

Also called snap rings. There are three kinds of snap ring pliers--they squeeze the ring, expand the ring, or do both depending on how you set them. They also have removeable tips to match the hole size in the snap ring. As knappers said, it shouldn't be too expensive, even if you get the squeeze/expand kind.

Kirk