Review: The Veritas Jack Rabbet Plane

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Hi Chris

While the Veritas Jack Rabbet Plane can do it all, it is a technical plane and not for someone starting out. It is for someone who understands planes, and knows how to get the best from them. I would go with your original plan, that is, to get a LA Jack. The question is, do you get the LN or LV version? They are different planes - size, heft, range. Of the two I think that the LV is the more advanced design - easier to set up and adjust, more features. However they are different sized planes and, as a result, you will prefer one over the other. I have the LV but I also have the Stanley #62, upon which the LN is based, and use each in different situations. You really need t try them both and read some reviews to understand the features each others.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Hi Derek. Could you give some examples of where you might use one over-the-other. Thanks.

Just a few points ..

Both BU planes excel at the extreme cutting angles - either low for end grain or high for interlocked grain, which is an area where common angle planes are less comfortable.

The LV LAJ is like a BU #5 1/2, while the LN LAJ is like a BU #5. The LV is slightly wider and has more mass. It gains where momentum is needed, such as planing hard end grain on a shooting board (where it has more lateral support - a wider body than the LN) as well, and where one is planing harder, especially interlocked face grain.

The LN, being smaller, is the more nimble of the two, and the one that would be a more comfortable and less fatiguing if used for long periods planing face grain.

The LN is definitely the prettier of the two, but the LV has the wider range and is the choice for the user. The LV has features that are lacking in the LN (which is based on the Stanley). The LV has a depth stop for the mouth, which enables one to open the mouth and then return it to a fine setting. It has side set screws, which enable the blade to be returned the same setting before it was removed for sharpening.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
anaminal":hjfu30tu said:
I plan to visit Axminster next weekend while Deneb Puchalski from Lie-Nielsen is there, I had decided on a LN Jack (either 5 or 5 1/2)...
Derek Cohen":hjfu30tu said:
...I would go with your original plan, that is, to get a LA Jack. The question is, do you get the LN or LV version?...
I think Derek misread your posting. Derek's talking about bevel-up planes, whereas your original plan was for a bevel down jack "No.5 or No.5½".

Those L-N planes look really nice, but don't forget to consider Clifton's No.5 & No.5½ too (hand forged irons & British).

Again IMHO, if you're going for a jack plane, a LN 5 or 5½ seems (IMHO) to be a lot of money for what is a rough duty plane. You'd be better off with a brand-new smoother and a second-hand jack. However, if you decide to go with the bevel-down option Derek's advice is good. My own preference is the Veritas (LV) LAJ with the 2¼" irons (not that I've used the L-N version).

Cheers, Vann.
 
Although the Veritas Jack Rabbet can trace its roots to the #10 ..... actually think of it as the offspring of the #10 and the #62 .... it has as much in common with the #10 as Jacob has with hollow grinding :D

This is a thoroughly modern plane. In fact it would be science fantasy to a furniture maker in the 17th century. Is it expensive? Just think of the number of planes it can replace ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

I don't wish to detract from such a good review, or hand plane, but would however like to air a word or three of caution regarding the reply to Anaminal's query.

Stanley said something very similar to Derek's "Just think of the number of planes it can replace ..." when they introduced their #55 Universal Combination Plane as 55 planes in 1. Although a great plane in it's own right, a multi-tasker will seldom out perform the job specific planes it's intended to replace. This was the case with the #55 and can be the case with #10 derivatives if you expect them to be capable of outrunning plane types you hope it can emulate. Good enough to use occasionally on work outside their normal range, but nowhere near as good as job specific planes.

The last point needs to be recognised and highlighted before making recommendations regarding any tool and especially so if they're targetted toward newcomers.

One downside to buying a #10 derivative (ESPECIALLY if intended as a first and only plane) is the fact it isn't especially suited for use with the shooting board, or for cross-grain facing work on raised panels. A second & third blade/iron would also prove necessary if one wishes to use this plane as a crossover between jack and smoothing plane. If working with a single blade on hand and retaining this plane type for it's intended use in rebate work - the single iron will need to be honed square and true without round-over on it's corners. Hence the need for additional blades/irons.

Yet another downside to working with a single plane is the fact you continually find yourself needing to re-set/adjust the iron to suit the cut needed during use if working various aspects on a project. Not a good trait if you wish to quickly rough a surface into true using a #5 jack setting, then quickly plane some end grain, before smoothing your work piece using a #4 smoother setting. You won't be able to set the plane up and retain a constant setting, so will naturally tend to become disenchanted by repeatedly needing to set and re-set your plane.

In the case of a learner, this breaks concentration and has him/her awkwardly attempting to gain the best performance from the same plane using multiple settings, instead of one. I'd much rather to teach a learner how to use a single plane - using a single setting - extremely well, rather than have the same learner endure unnecessary frustration in trying to coax the performance of a #04, #05, #9.5/60.5, #713, et al, from a plane intended for use on rebate work.

------------

Having said all of that, I sincerely enjoyed test-driving both Lie-Nielsen & Veritas various takes on the #10 and found both maker's examples very easy to work with. However, I would not recommend either as a first hand plane, but instead would chose a #4 and #5 as a pair of planes (Bevel down or bevel up) to initially invest in. Then a #9.5/#60.5 block plane and perhaps a #078/#778 rebate/fillister plane and basic plough/combination plane (A second hand #044 or #050) if you find yourself pursuing a route where you'll need them.

In other words, I'd buy a straight forward #5 jack plane AND a #4 smoothing plane as part of a starter kit.
 
Hi Gary

I agree with all you wrote: it is preferable to have several dedicated planes rather than one do-it-all that requires setting up for each occasion. The Jack Rabbet certainly was not intended by Veritas as a wide range plane, and nor was it designed for the shooting board. These were my inventions for the purpose of the review - not something to take too literally (which is why I cautioned Chris against it in his case). Nevertheless it can do everything I wrote about! So if you are that special person who wants one plane to do it all - and is capable of enduring the changes - then the Veritas Jack Rabbet is a real option.

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
We tested the Veritas Jack Rebate Plane in the most recent issue. It costs more than £300 with the new iron. It is fabulous, but I just don't see what sort of woodworker could justify the cost. As someone mentioned, it is too complicated, and in my opinion too light, to replace a Jack like a Clifton 5 1/2 (which is my favourite) as a first plane for a beginner building a toolkit. You'd have to be doing a lot of rebating and panel raising to justify the cost. That said, it is gorgeous!

Nick
 
Hi Derek,

I can carry out the same work with the same plane too, but I'd not be too content planing squarely across the grain when panel raising with it. I much prefer skew ironed planes for this exercise.

----------

Hi Nick,

I couldn't agree more in terms of the lack of heft and utility of a #10 in comparison with #5's and #5.1/2's.
 
Hi all, thanks for your responses to my query. First off – Derek, appologies for hijacking your thread here but it has been of great use to me (and probably saved me from buying the wrong tool this weekend!).

While the Veritas Jack Rabbet Plane can do it all, it is a technical plane and not for someone starting out. It is for someone who understands planes, and knows how to get the best from them.
I must admit that when I read this I took it as a bit of a challenge, my mind said “I can handle a technical plane!” (or can eventually learn to).
it is preferable to have several dedicated planes rather than one do-it-all that requires setting up for each occasion.
As you go on to say; trying to get it all out of one tool, even when skill level isn't an issue, presents it's own dificulties, so I accept your advice here :)

Vann":8v836im4 said:
I think Derek misread your posting. Derek's talking about bevel-up planes, whereas your original plan was for a bevel down jack "No.5 or No.5½".
Cheers Vann, that's right, I had just been considering a basic LN 5 bevel down Jack, however my mind has been changed...
Vann":8v836im4 said:
Those L-N planes look really nice, but don't forget to consider Clifton's No.5 & No.5½ too (hand forged irons & British).
I've not read anything about Clifton, however as I was going to visit Axminster who don't stock that brand they're out of the running.

Vann":8v836im4 said:
Again IMHO, if you're going for a jack plane, a LN 5 or 5½ seems (IMHO) to be a lot of money for what is a rough duty plane. You'd be better off with a brand-new smoother and a second-hand jack. However, if you decide to go with the bevel-down option Derek's advice is good. My own preference is the Veritas (LV) LAJ with the 2¼" irons (not that I've used the L-N version).
This is a very good suggestion – I was thinking along similar lines when looking at the Veritas Jack Rabbit: if I'm going to spend money on an expensive plane I may as well put that money into a more technical one... your approach does make more sense for me right now. Also I didn't realise a bevel down no. 5 Jack was considered more of a roughing tool, but now you mention it I think I will go for a bevel up – I like the idea of having control over the angle with a bevel-up (I actually enjoy sharpening my tools).

GazPal":8v836im4 said:
a multi-tasker will seldom out perform the job specific planes it's intended to replace...Good enough to use occasionally on work outside their normal range, but nowhere near as good as job specific ...
Yet another downside to working with a single plane is the fact you continually find yourself needing to re-set/adjust the iron to suit the cut needed during use if working various aspects on a project
Yeah this WOULD bug me!

Nick Gibbs":8v836im4 said:
You'd have to be doing a lot of rebating and panel raising to justify the cost.
Nick
I wish I knew what I'll be doing over the next 40 years with these... hopefully a bit of everything :)


So in summary - again thanks to all! I think I'll go with the suggestion of a New LA Jack (this one: http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-veri ... rod724792/) and keep an eye out for a bevel down Jack.

quick question - what is the difference between a Low Angle Jack and LA Smoother? Is it just the length of the sole as both LV and LN produce one of each.

Regards,
Chris
 
Clifton have been very sadly delisted by Axminster. It is sad as their planes are magnificent but their marketing is rubbish. You can view them at Classic Hand Tools, Turners Retreat and The World of Woodworking. You can support British manufacturing, as featured in our recent article about Terence Conran's toolkit.

Nick
 
anaminal":ghgyf0wu said:
quick question - what is the difference between a Low Angle Jack and LA Smoother? Is it just the length of the sole as both LV and LN produce one of each.
Yes, sole length.

But watch out for the Veritas (LV) naming system - it doesn't seem to have any logic. BUS = Bevel Up Smoother; LAJ = Low Angle Jack; BUJ = Bevel Up Jointer. However they're all bevel up and they're all low angle (12°), and they all have interchangeable 2¼" irons.

But then there is the Low Angle Smoother that has a 2" bevel up iron. And the Small Bevel Up Smoother which has a low angle 1¾" iron.... Confused? You should be (hammer)

Cheers, Vann.
 
anaminal":3r751462 said:
So in summary - again thanks to all! I think I'll go with the suggestion of a New LA Jack (this one: http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-veri ... rod724792/) and keep an eye out for a bevel down Jack.
Are you getting the one with the standard thickness iron or the one with the extra thick iron...
LV LAJ-H iron.jpg
LV LAJ-H.jpg


That's actually an April Fools LAJ they produced a few years ago. Only a couple more weeks until this year's Lee Valley April Fools tool 8)

Cheers, Vann.
 

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Vann":wp4vxc2w said:
anaminal":wp4vxc2w said:
So in summary - again thanks to all! I think I'll go with the suggestion of a New LA Jack (this one: http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-veri ... rod724792/) and keep an eye out for a bevel down Jack.
Are you getting the one with the standard thickness iron or the one with the extra thick iron...

That's actually an April Fools LAJ they produced a few years ago. Only a couple more weeks until this year's Lee Valley April Fools tool 8)

Cheers, Vann.

That's definitely one for Jacob's freehand honing. :lol:

I wonder if they had any bites? Or should I ask, how many actually tried to buy one? :lol:
 
I seem to be making my mind up every night and then changing it again the next... I've just watched a review of the LN LA jack (here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKmLRYmI8e8 ).

The review really liked the versatility of the plane, but again commented at the end (7:13) that if you were to identify one main role for the LA Jack, it would be for roughing and a precision engineered LN is a "overkill" for a rough job. His first plane was a LN LA Jack, but had since bought other planes including a Smoother plane for, erm, smoothing. Would you guys agree with this? what is the actual difference between a Smoother and a LA Jack? If it's just the sole length (the Jack being longer) then isn't that the better plane for the job?

Basically, why would you own both a LA Jack and a LA Smoother? And do you think I'll regret spending hundreds on a LA Jack in a few years time? I don't mind spending the money, but don't want something that becomes obsolete as I develop my toolkit

Chris
 
In some ways I am with Nick on this debate but I come at it from a slightly different angle. I simply can't see any reason to buy an LN over a Clifton if you want a Stanley copy. Plane for plane they do the same job to the same standard as far as I can see and the Clifton is British and cheaper. But the real question should surely be, why would you want a Stanley when you could buy another top quaality plane whose manufacturer has taken the trouble to really analyse the old Stanley planes and design something which has innovative features designed either to make it work better or be easier to use. I refer, of course, to Veritas. If you want proof of this, just spend two minutes with the LN and Veritas skew block planes side by side. The veritas is how the old Stanley,on which the LN is based, should have been in the first place.

Jim
 
One smooths, one is a general workhorse and a Jointer, joints.
They all plane wood but are designed for different tasks.
I've had my LV BU planes for about 9yrs and cannot see how they will become obsolete?
They are really great planes and very easy to change the effective angle by altering the secondary bevel are regrinding.
Having all three means I can interchange the blades, that I have already prepared for different tasks, without having to buy spares.

Rod
 
anaminal":1qkcjt8p said:
Iwhat is the actual difference between a Smoother and a LA Jack? If it's just the sole length (the Jack being longer) then isn't that the better plane for the job?
No. You use a jack to bring your timber down to size rapidly, then your try/jointer plane to level the piece (this is where you want the length to get it level). Finally you want a short plane as a smoother to do very fine, localised, cleaning up. This may seem counter-intuitive (you're un-leveling in localised areas), but the amount you're removing should be small, and the short length means you can get in to the bits that need work without having to rework large areas.

anaminal":1qkcjt8p said:
Basically, why would you own both a LA Jack and a LA Smoother? And do you think I'll regret spending hundreds on a LA Jack in a few years time? I don't mind spending the money, but don't want something that becomes obsolete as I develop my toolkit.
The LAJ is no ordinary jack plane. It's a very versatile plane that does a number of tasks well. So no - I doubt you'll regret buying it. It's a good plane to start with.

Then when you get tired of continually changing it's set-up, you buy other planes to cover the most used set-ups - such as a (new, precision) dedicated smoother, and a (second-hand, coarse) dedicated jack or scrub.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.
 
Vann":nets02p5 said:
The LAJ is no ordinary jack plane. It's a very versatile plane that does a number of tasks well. So no - I doubt you'll regret buying it. It's a good plane to start with.

Then when you get tired of continually changing it's set-up, you buy other planes to cover the most used set-ups - such as a (new, precision) dedicated smoother, and a (second-hand, coarse) dedicated jack or scrub.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

Vann's reply pretty well sums it up, as you really should invest in the tools best suited to your needs rather than blindly buying tools without knowing whether or not you need them for the work you're involved in. It's not always possible to forecast potential needs, but - most often in the case of novices - this is where drawing up a basic tool list alongside your cutting list can help.
 

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