Retirement workshop - which machines to buy?

[Cabinetman]

Maybe, but in already have a table saw and routers. Do you recommend any particular one?

Either Hammer or SCM Minimax, they both have a small nr26 and a slightly larger nr30. Personally I think the Minimax is better but they are both very well engineered.
All of those machines have a 10” saw plus either a 10” or 12” cast iron planer and thicknesser underneath, plus a Spindle moulder. -That would save you a router table and enable you to do larger skirting board type mouldings. You may not think that you would use such a thing but I find it amazing how often I use mine.
They all have the sliding table thing that is brill for crosscutting.
The Startrite saw that Deema recommended looks good, it’s pretty much the same as my Sedgwick and that has been wonderful, the crosscut is incredibly handy.
Plus one for Startrite bandsaws btw.
Ian

 

[adhb]

Many thanks. Easy sounds good! Will take a look.

 

[adhb]

Many thanks. Easy sounds good! Will take a look.

Either Hammer or SCM Minimax, they both have a small nr26 and a slightly larger nr30. Personally I think the Minimax is better but they are both very well engineered.
All of those machines have a 10” saw plus either a 10” or 12” cast iron planer and thicknesser underneath, plus a Spindle moulder. -That would save you a router table and enable you to do larger skirting board type mouldings. You may not think that you would use such a thing but I find it amazing how often I use mine.
They all have the sliding table thing that is brill for crosscutting.
The Startrite saw that Deema recommended looks good, it’s pretty much the same as my Sedgwick and that has been wonderful, the crosscut is incredibly handy.
Plus one for Startrite bandsaws btw.
Ian

Very much appreciated Ian. I'll check them out, all new to me.

 

[MikeK]

I'm a hobby woodworker looking to set up a bigger, better workshop to enjoy in my retirement. I've got a good range of hand tools, routers, scroll saw, bobbin sander, thicknesser, compound mitre saw and table saw. Now I'm planning to get a band saw, router table, drill press, mortice. And dust extraction. I'm lucky enough to have squirreled away a chunk of money for this. My first thought was to go for Record Power, but I'm having second thoughts after reading a few bad reviews of some of their bandsaws. I've also had my head turned by my Axminster portable spiral thicknesser.
Any recommendations please? I want to buy decent machines that I can trust, will last but won't bankrupt me. Many thanks

Congratulations on your retirement! Where is your shop (garage, basement, penthouse suite), how large is the floor plan, and what is the access to the shop?

I retired in 2019, but started planning for my hobbyist woodworking shop in 2017. My journey, mostly in an equipment information and availability vacuum, was long. Mistakes along the way made it more expensive than it should have been and wasted a lot of time.

The first version of my shop was in the two-car garage that also had to remain a garage for two cars. This meant the equipment had to be mobile and have a small footprint. About a year into the planning and purchase of several future boat anchors, I changed my mind on the location and built out a 5 x 5 meter section of the fully enclosed basement.

While this decision created better space for the shop, it created a weight and size restriction for the machines. Access to the basement was via a set of wooden stairs with two 90-degree turns and an 82cm wide doorway into the shop (820mm for those who fear the centimeter). I made it work, but this required disassembling the saw so it could be safely moved down the stairs by two people. Conversely, anything I build has to fit up the stairs, so large shelves and cabinets need to be modular.

The section of the basement where I was going to set up the shop is 10 x 5 meters, but my wife had plans for half of this space, so I had to build a dividing wall to enclose the shop. In an effort to do this the least painful way, I baselined the shop floor plan in SketchUp and added the dust collection closet first. Since the basement shop area is below grade with no windows, dust collection was the primary consideration.

Once I had the floor plan, I could place equipment and stuff in the shop to see what would fit, what would be stationary, and what had to be mobile. This also allowed me to design the electrical distribution system and place the single and three-phase receptacles. (houses in Germany are wired with 400V 3-phase power). The SCM slider saw dominated the middle of the floor and the miter saw station (with shelving and drawers) was fixed to the west wall. The rest of the machines were on wheels or mobile bases so they could be moved out of the way when not being used.

After about a year of working in this shop, my wife changed her plans and I could expand into the other 5 x 5 meter section. I moved the workbench and drill press out of the first area and built a 2 x 1 meter MFT-style mobile workbench/assembly table in the new section. Every machine that has to connect to the large dust collection system is in the original section, and everything that connects to the smaller vacuum machines, with the exception of the miter saw, is in the new section.

The SCM slider was a great purchase, and I processed about 50 sheets of sheet goods through it the first year. Since expanding the shop and buying two track saws, I rarely use the slider and am considering selling it to free up some floor space.

The Record Power BS350S bandsaw was a potential boat anchor, but after extensive modifications and blades from Tuff Saws, I'm happy with it. If I was buying a bandsaw now, it would be the Laguna 14BX because the used market here is mostly very large industrial machines.

The Holzmann P/T was a boat anchor and I replaced it with the SCM FS30G with Tersa knives.

I have a router table and a spindle moulder, both on wheels, and go against the grain on UKW that the spindle moulder makes the router table obsolete. Unless someone can show me how to make box joints with a spindle moulder, I'll continue to churn them out with ease and speed on my router table. The router table is also simple to set up for quick jobs and I already had a good collection of cutters. Last year, I made 24 raised panel doors and 12 raised panel drawer faces for a friend's kitchen facelift using the router table and Freud raised panel cutter set. Using the spindle moulder tends to be an exercise in discovery with each use as I have to buy cutters as I need them. I prefer Guhdo and Whitehill, but Whitehill tends to be punishingly expensive thanks to Brexit.

 

[adhb]

Congratulations on your retirement! Where is your shop (garage, basement, penthouse suite), how large is the floor plan, and what is the access to the shop?

I retired in 2019, but started planning for my hobbyist woodworking shop in 2017. My journey, mostly in an equipment information and availability vacuum, was long. Mistakes along the way made it more expensive than it should have been and wasted a lot of time.

The first version of my shop was in the two-car garage that also had to remain a garage for two cars. This meant the equipment had to be mobile and have a small footprint. About a year into the planning and purchase of several future boat anchors, I changed my mind on the location and built out a 5 x 5 meter section of the fully enclosed basement.

While this decision created better space for the shop, it created a weight and size restriction for the machines. Access to the basement was via a set of wooden stairs with two 90-degree turns and an 82cm wide doorway into the shop (820mm for those who fear the centimeter). I made it work, but this required disassembling the saw so it could be safely moved down the stairs by two people. Conversely, anything I build has to fit up the stairs, so large shelves and cabinets need to be modular.

The section of the basement where I was going to set up the shop is 10 x 5 meters, but my wife had plans for half of this space, so I had to build a dividing wall to enclose the shop. In an effort to do this the least painful way, I baselined the shop floor plan in SketchUp and added the dust collection closet first. Since the basement shop area is below grade with no windows, dust collection was the primary consideration.

Once I had the floor plan, I could place equipment and stuff in the shop to see what would fit, what would be stationary, and what had to be mobile. This also allowed me to design the electrical distribution system and place the single and three-phase receptacles. (houses in Germany are wired with 400V 3-phase power). The SCM slider saw dominated the middle of the floor and the miter saw station (with shelving and drawers) was fixed to the west wall. The rest of the machines were on wheels or mobile bases so they could be moved out of the way when not being used.

After about a year of working in this shop, my wife changed her plans and I could expand into the other 5 x 5 meter section. I moved the workbench and drill press out of the first area and built a 2 x 1 meter MFT-style mobile workbench/assembly table in the new section. Every machine that has to connect to the large dust collection system is in the original section, and everything that connects to the smaller vacuum machines, with the exception of the miter saw, is in the new section.

The SCM slider was a great purchase, and I processed about 50 sheets of sheet goods through it the first year. Since expanding the shop and buying two track saws, I rarely use the slider and am considering selling it to free up some floor space.

The Record Power BS350S bandsaw was a potential boat anchor, but after extensive modifications and blades from Tuff Saws, I'm happy with it. If I was buying a bandsaw now, it would be the Laguna 14BX because the used market here is mostly very large industrial machines.

The Holzmann P/T was a boat anchor and I replaced it with the SCM FS30G with Tersa knives.

I have a router table and a spindle moulder, both on wheels, and go against the grain on UKW that the spindle moulder makes the router table obsolete. Unless someone can show me how to make box joints with a spindle moulder, I'll continue to churn them out with ease and speed on my router table. The router table is also simple to set up for quick jobs and I already had a good collection of cutters. Last year, I made 24 raised panel doors and 12 raised panel drawer faces for a friend's kitchen facelift using the router table and Freud raised panel cutter set. Using the spindle moulder tends to be an exercise in discovery with each use as I have to buy cutters as I need them. I prefer Guhdo and Whitehill, but Whitehill tends to be punishingly expensive thanks to Brexit.

Many thanks, wow what a reply! Lots to digest. Much appreciated I'll work through this in the next day or two.

 

[Spectric]

Mike, your huge advantage is the three phase supply as it opens up all sorts of posibilities that so many of us would love but we would need to use a phase convertor and still not have the same power available as a true three phase supply.

I have a router table

But not any old router table as it could have been built by NASA, itis a really great piece of engineering and maybe the OP would like links to the pictures.

 

[MikeK]

But not any old router table as it could have been built by NASA, itis a really great piece of engineering and maybe the OP would like links to the pictures.

Thanks! My router table is based on the design by Guy Dunlap using mostly Incra components. Finding a suitable router motor was a challenge until I found the ideal motor from @Wood Workers Workshop. I do not have any problems with this setup after almost four years of use. I still have not wired in the Wixey DRO, but haven't had a project where I needed it yet.

Here is the link to the router table build on the Festool Owners Group website:

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/router-table-63522/msg613775

 

[Tony_Wootton]

I'm a hobby woodworker looking to set up a bigger, better workshop to enjoy in my retirement. I've got a good range of hand tools, routers, scroll saw, bobbin sander, thicknesser, compound mitre saw and table saw. Now I'm planning to get a band saw, router table, drill press, mortice. And dust extraction. I'm lucky enough to have squirreled away a chunk of money for this. My first thought was to go for Record Power, but I'm having second thoughts after reading a few bad reviews of some of their bandsaws. I've also had my head turned by my Axminster portable spiral thicknesser.
Any recommendations please? I want to buy decent machines that I can trust, will last but won't bankrupt me. Many thanks

HI.
I may have everything you need. I have to dispose of my comprehensive home/hobby workshop due to ill health. My larger equipment is mostly Felder and in good condition.
My Felder horizontal mortises is currently on eBay, along with a short list of some of the other kit I need to sell.
I would be happy to WhatsApp with you and show you around if you wish.
I am near Cirencester.
Regards, Tony

 

[Dynamite]

Hi adhb, its great to see you enjoying your woodworking and expanding the operations.

Dust Extraction: If it were me, I would buy the best most powerful dust extraction you can get. I only have a single garage sized workshop and use a Henry with a long hose but it does me for now, i just move it around my machines accordingly (only use one at a time). I also use it with a brush attachment for a roving clean up. I do on occasion wish I had bigger more powerful extraction though.

Machines to Buy: I have built mine up over time and generally my rule of thumb is that if my next project requires one, then thats when I start looking into it. This philosophy has served me well so far and keeps me in check otherwise, I would probably buy a lot of tools that I dont actually "need" just because its eye candy. When I'm thinking of a new machine and start looking into it, you find that there's more ways to skin a cat and there's many techniques out there to get the same results meaning you probably can already do it using what you've already got.

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards... Rob

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If you're looking for a bench drill keep an eye on https://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/
nice ones come up sometimes.

 

[Roland]

Dust Extraction: If it were me, I would buy the best most powerful dust extraction you can get.

Machines to Buy: I have built mine up over time and generally my rule of thumb is that if my next project requires one, then thats when I start looking into it.

I came here to say this, but Rob said it first. The advice I was given is not to buy anything until you need it. When you do buy get something which is unlikely to need replacing/upgrading.

 

[spiritburner]

Get yourself a very good drill press. I recommend the Bosch PBD40 , It has tons of power and torque, for a table saw go for the 10 inch DeWalt 7492 , its simply brilliant, if you want to cut sheets buy a Track saw, were to old to be umping 8/4 sheets around safely at this age...

Get a combined thicknesser and jointer in one and if you can afford one the Record Coronet Herald lathe. I swear by mine, its fantastic, mine is mounted on the bench and I use carbide tipped chisels as I am from an engineering background and they work perfectly for me. I even tweaked mine so I can turn down softer metals by installing a simple tool post and while tools are great dont forget a system of extraction because you will certainly need it for the sanding station you are going to build

Also consider making yourself a nice workbench, it doesn't have to be too elaborate as some seem to be but they area hell of a lot better than Workmates! Pop a few Dogs into it as well as a good vice. I built my own router bench from plans on youtube and used a Ikea butchers block table as the actual unit, just routed out the top and dropped the lifter and T tracks in and its perfect for it, about 500x500 work surface and as solid as a rock and around €75 !

In fact I use a number of these tables for my machines as they are so good and strong and its easy to make some thin plywood covers for the sides and they make nice storage units as well for the tools and bits of what machine is built in to them.... If I need to I can easily lock them together with some fittings I bought and I also purchased the same worktop from Ikea, cut it down to suit as extending leaves and mounted collapsible stainless self support hinges and it doubles the size of the bench very quickly. I also sometimes have a drop in a leg if the leaf needs additional support and drilled in some pop up dog holes as well !!

They are called Bekvam Kitchen Trolleys made from solid birch, quite heavy but easy to move about in a smaller shop

https://www.ikea.com/es/en/p/bekvam-kitchen-trolley-birch-30240348/

I picked up a really good second hand ELU 3401 bandsaw and although 20 years old it is still as good as new and has the full 1 horsepower motor on it, just needed some TLC , a couple of new blades and it easily cuts through all woods I can throw at it and aluminium, brass, copper and perspex all are cut perfectly.

Finally dont forget some form of heating and good lighting in your shop, its damn cold and damp in the winters in the UK and very grey unlike where I am in Spain, it's cold here at times but very sunny always. I heat mine with a woodburner which also serves to consume my sawdust, shavings and scraps and only takes 10 minutes to warm the shop up nicely .

 

[adhb]

HI.
I may have everything you need. I have to dispose of my comprehensive home/hobby workshop due to ill health. My larger equipment is mostly Felder and in good condition.
My Felder horizontal mortises is currently on eBay, along with a short list of some of the other kit I need to sell.
I would be happy to WhatsApp with you and show you around if you wish.
I am near Cirencester.
Regards, Tony

Many thanks Tony, and apologies for the delayed response. I appreciate your offer, thanks very much, but I think I'm likely to need to build up the workshop over a few years, one machine at a time.
Another complication is that I'm weeks away from moving house, from Cambridgeshire to sunny Scotland. As things stand I don't know what sort of workshop I'll have.
Having said that I'd be very interested in having a look at what you've got. Cirencester is a bit of a stretch, but can you point me towards your eBay listing or your list of kit? I don't know Felder, but interested to find out more.
Again thanks for your reply.

 

[adhb]

Hi adhb, its great to see you enjoying your woodworking and expanding the operations.

Dust Extraction: If it were me, I would buy the best most powerful dust extraction you can get. I only have a single garage sized workshop and use a Henry with a long hose but it does me for now, i just move it around my machines accordingly (only use one at a time). I also use it with a brush attachment for a roving clean up. I do on occasion wish I had bigger more powerful extraction though.

Machines to Buy: I have built mine up over time and generally my rule of thumb is that if my next project requires one, then thats when I start looking into it. This philosophy has served me well so far and keeps me in check otherwise, I would probably buy a lot of tools that I dont actually "need" just because its eye candy. When I'm thinking of a new machine and start looking into it, you find that there's more ways to skin a cat and there's many techniques out there to get the same results meaning you probably can already do it using what you've already got.

Hope this helps.

Kind Regards... Rob

Sound advice, cheers Bob. Yes, a slow and steady accumulation of kit is going to be the best way for me.

 

[adhb]

Get yourself a very good drill press. I recommend the Bosch PBD40 , It has tons of power and torque, for a table saw go for the 10 inch DeWalt 7492 , its simply brilliant, if you want to cut sheets buy a Track saw, were to old to be umping 8/4 sheets around safely at this age...

Get a combined thicknesser and jointer in one and if you can afford one the Record Coronet Herald lathe. I swear by mine, its fantastic, mine is mounted on the bench and I use carbide tipped chisels as I am from an engineering background and they work perfectly for me. I even tweaked mine so I can turn down softer metals by installing a simple tool post and while tools are great dont forget a system of extraction because you will certainly need it for the sanding station you are going to build

Also consider making yourself a nice workbench, it doesn't have to be too elaborate as some seem to be but they area hell of a lot better than Workmates! Pop a few Dogs into it as well as a good vice. I built my own router bench from plans on youtube and used a Ikea butchers block table as the actual unit, just routed out the top and dropped the lifter and T tracks in and its perfect for it, about 500x500 work surface and as solid as a rock and around €75 !

In fact I use a number of these tables for my machines as they are so good and strong and its easy to make some thin plywood covers for the sides and they make nice storage units as well for the tools and bits of what machine is built in to them.... If I need to I can easily lock them together with some fittings I bought and I also purchased the same worktop from Ikea, cut it down to suit as extending leaves and mounted collapsible stainless self support hinges and it doubles the size of the bench very quickly. I also sometimes have a drop in a leg if the leaf needs additional support and drilled in some pop up dog holes as well !!

View attachment 178500
They are called Bekvam Kitchen Trolleys made from solid birch, quite heavy but easy to move about in a smaller shop

https://www.ikea.com/es/en/p/bekvam-kitchen-trolley-birch-30240348/

I picked up a really good second hand ELU 3401 bandsaw and although 20 years old it is still as good as new and has the full 1 horsepower motor on it, just needed some TLC , a couple of new blades and it easily cuts through all woods I can throw at it and aluminium, brass, copper and perspex all are cut perfectly.

Finally dont forget some form of heating and good lighting in your shop, its damn cold and damp in the winters in the UK and very grey unlike where I am in Spain, it's cold here at times but very sunny always. I heat mine with a woodburner which also serves to consume my sawdust, shavings and scraps and only takes 10 minutes to warm the shop up nicely .

Many thanks, lots to mull over here. Yes I've heard good things of the Bosch pillar drill, that's likely to make the list.
I have a metabo table saw but I'm already seeing its limitations. I'll check out the DeWalt, and the bandsaw you mention, as that's probably the next machine I'll get.
Heating and dust control... I plan to take both pretty seriously. But as I'm weeks from moving house (to Scotland) I need to see what sort of workshop I'll end up with. I'm dreaming of something better than my current single garage.
There's something very pleasing about a woodburner that eats up your waste. I guess wood dust isn't an issue safely-wise or you wouldn't have done it.
Really appreciate your suggestions, I'll take time to look into them. Cheers, all the best

 

[spiritburner]

Many thanks, lots to mull over here. Yes I've heard good things of the Bosch pillar drill, that's likely to make the list.
I have a metabo table saw but I'm already seeing its limitations. I'll check out the DeWalt, and the bandsaw you mention, as that's probably the next machine I'll get.
Heating and dust control... I plan to take both pretty seriously. But as I'm weeks from moving house (to Scotland) I need to see what sort of workshop I'll end up with. I'm dreaming of something better than my current single garage.
There's something very pleasing about a woodburner that eats up your waste. I guess wood dust isn't an issue safely-wise or you wouldn't have done it.
Really appreciate your suggestions, I'll take time to look into them. Cheers, all the best

no wood dust is just fine,mostly its extracted by the machine but what is left is not a problem at all and moving to scotland youll need a good wood burner or peat burner, decent lights as well !!

 

[adhb]

no wood dust is just fine,mostly its extracted by the machine but what is left is not a problem at all and moving to scotland youll need a good wood burner or peat burner, decent lights as well !!

Agreed! I'm interested to know what dust extraction you're using... I've got a cheap Lumberjack, but it's noisy, filter is hard work and hose keeps contracting/shortening. Not very impressed.

 

[Delaney]

There’s generally 5 bands of quality.

Bottom Tier:

Cheap Chinese stuff that is poor quality. Record power, Axminster, SIP, iTech. Anything DM Tools sell as machinery

2) Cheap Chinese gear that is over priced and generally of poor quality. Axminster, laguna, ITech, Bosch, Dewalt, Nova.

Jet is a funny one. They are better than most but I’m still not sold. I think they’re still bottom tier but could be lower mid. They straddle the line.

Lower Mid Tier:

3) European professional brands with Chinese manufacturing. Not all great but still better than (1) & (2). Minimax’, Hammer, AJAX (Chinese end). Felder gear under the 700 series, so 500 series etc.

-Honorary mention to Sedgwick. Considered more ‘agricultural’ machinery.

Mid Tier:

4) European made, SCM, Felder. Casadai, Centuara? (Italian bandsaws).

Most stuff that comes out of italy, that isn’t SCM, is a bit ropey ime. Casadai isn’t too bad as it’s rebadged SCM stuff (for the most part) but isn’t quite the same quality.

Upper Tier:

5) Martin, Parnhans, SCM l’invincible

I would stay away from cheap gear. Record power, bosch, dewalt, Axminster, laguna (overpriced), Startrite. Anything DM Tools or Axminster would would sell.
It’s all drop shipped Chinese stuff that is pure pot luck.
This is a retirement workshop, not a starters workshop but price is king.

2) For a planer/thicknesser try to get a real SCM (not minimax), Felder etc.. At worse Casadai. Make sure to get Helical cutters.

3) All Chinese pillar drills are made by Rexon, you just decide what level you want, or badge name. Don’t be fooled by Optimum, it’s Chinese. Axminster drills are imo uniquely poor quality.
Speak to Oscia tools. They often have good used Meddings drills, woodpecker (rjh still chinese) Don’t buy anything pre 1970 Fabco etc..

3) For a Bandsaw get a Felder FB310? FB510, SCM, etc.. all under £4k

4) Instead of a panel saw you could get a wall mounted panel saw. Not as good but take up less space, easier to load. Or get the base model Altendorf. You can cut anything on a sliding panel saw. There are jigs and tricks to do it all, unlike what a previous commenter said. They are by far imo the best machine in the shop.
You can cross cut, rip, make accurate repeatable cuts. I have a felder and cut whole slabs (maple, poplar, whatever).
However they do gake up the most space.

To summarise:

Bench drill: lightly used Meddings (they did make some in china so pay attention to that re: price), woodpecker (chinese)bit expensive but higher end of the Chinesium line. Optimum at worst.

Bandsaw: Felder FB, SCM

Planer/thicknesser: SCM, Felder (helical cutter). Minimax at worst. Stay away from Axminsters planers.

Small Panel Saw: Altendorf. Used felder 700, Hammer at worst.

I’d take up matey selling his felder gear. If it’s been well looked after you’d likely do very well.

There is a significant leap in quality between Felder and SCM (mid tier European) than all the Chinese/Taiwan stuff. Night and day difference. Get good used European made and you’ll very happy.

I would lastly add that all of the above I’ve told you to avoid doesn’t mean there aren’t some gems in there and that people haven’t or can’t do perfectly good work on them. I’m just sticking to a general rule of thumb, that maybe unfair but is based on my experiences and often the experience of customers, if you check reviews.

 

[Stuart Moffat]

If you are still in or around St Neots, you are welcome to try out a > 10 year old record BS350 bandsaw. I also kept my baby Delta bandsaw, which still gets very regular use as I have a 1/4 inch blade on it and can quickly saw tight curves without placing around changing blades on the bigger one. I also have a Hegner 2nd hand. I too am retired and have done a lot of work in grade 1listed buildings in Cambridge.
I live just outside st Neots, so feel free to PM me.
Stuart

 

[adhb]

HI.
I may have everything you need. I have to dispose of my comprehensive home/hobby workshop due to ill health. My larger equipment is mostly Felder and in good condition.
My Felder horizontal mortises is currently on eBay, along with a short list of some of the other kit I need to sell.
I would be happy to WhatsApp with you and show you around if you wish.
I am near Cirencester.
Regards, Tony

Hi Tony. Tried to reply earlier, but think I may have failed. Thanks very much for the offer. I'm moving to Scotland imminently, so not sure about the practicality if moving heavy kit. Having said that I can't see a listing for your morticer on eBay, has it sold? Is it possible to list a few of your other machines? World be greatly appreciated. Best wishes, Andy