Repointing garden wall advice (think photos showing)

[Doug71]

I have a wall between my drive and garden which is in need of attention.

The side I see from the house is fine, I guess it must have been repointed at some time

The side that looks on to the veg garden is in a really bad state

It's strange because the wall goes right round the property and the rest is not too bad, just the veg garden side that has deteriorated, guess maybe it catches the weather or something.

Any ideas what I can do, I know it will never look pretty? Do I just point it the best I can to give it some strength? Am expecting to be told I need to use lime mortar, would rather not if I can use something else? I fear whatever is done with pointing it will just end up looking like it's rendered but if I try to replace the bad bricks I might as well have built a new wall. Have had a couple of passing builders look at it but they were not really interested. The wall still feels strong and stable, has a slight lean in places but has done as long as I can remember.

The side that needs pointing is about 35 m long so I don't want to be doing it twice!

Any advice?

Thanks, Doug

 

[MARK.B.]

can't see the pics doug

 

[SammyQ]

Images not showing up on my Android phone Doug.

Sam

 

[Doug71]

Thank you, thought I had worked out posting pics. I did what the help board says to post images from google photos and they are showing on my computer so thought it had worked but yeah not showing when I look on my phone

 

[RogerS]

You guessed right. Lime mortar is the best for this application. Why don't you like using it ? Beats concrete hands down in these (and many other) applications.

It's called galetting. Go to this thread on thewoodhaven2 http://thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... ime+mortar and go to my post on 21 Aug 2017 where I show you how to do it.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

 

[MikeG.]

Lime is the right answer if lime was used for the original mortar. Lime isn't the right answer if the original mortar was cement based, and, personally, I am averse to using lime in contact with earth. Because the photos aren't showing, we have no idea if we are talking about an ancient stone wall, a modern block wall, a brick wall, a wall of clunch, a flint wall.....

Oh, and don't repoint now. Wait for the spring.

 

[novocaine]

Whrn you do repoint, get a mortar gun. It has saved me so much time and effort, not to mention mess and waste.

 

[Doug71]

Think photos showing now?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I'm no expert but to me the wall from the house side looks OK bar limited pointing.

The other side seems to have severe damage to the bricks which I think would not be fixed by pointing. Were it my wall I would look at whether a simple concrete skim to fill all the voids and leave a smooth surface would be better. It may also be cheaper and quicker!

 

[MARK.B.]

Some serious weathering going on there Doug,does look like lime mortar. imho whatever you decide to repoint with it wont improve the looks very much. your main problem will be freeze and thaw cycles doing more damage in the future on all the rough brick faces,pointing up all the joints will slow the process a bit. As mikeG says wait until the warmer drier weather gets here before you do anything.

 

[MikeG.]

Ooooh......lovely wall! English garden wall bond. It's a pity about the large area of spalling. I wonder whether ivy grew there once, or there was a source of damp (spalling is caused by frost). It's not possible to tell from a photo if that's lime mortar, but I'd bet 5p that it is. It's been repointed with cement mortar too, and that never helps.

On mortar guns......I've got one, and have used it enough to be pretty proficient with it. I reckon I'm quicker and neater with a pair of trowels, once you factor in all the faffing around filling it, and it requires an uncomfortably wet mix, which isn't ideal for pointing. The key skills with repointing are the consistency of the mortar (pretty dry, like putty), and to make a bed on your left hand trowel (if you're right handed) that's pretty much the same thickness as the width of the bed you are filling. Then you cut off a sausage-like sliver and push it straight off the left hand trowel into the mortar course. Old boys do it in their sleep, but it doesn't take long to get reasonably good at it. If your mortar is too wet lay some out thinly on some dry timber (such as ply, or a scaffold board).

 

[MikeG.]

........ Were it my wall I would look at whether a simple concrete skim to fill all the voids and leave a smooth surface would be better. It may also be cheaper and quicker!

Please don't do that. That would be the end of the wall. This wall is probably 150 years old, and rendering it would probably mean it was finished in the next 20 years.

 

[Doug71]

This wall is probably 150 years old

The date stone at the front says 1877 so you are not far off Mike!

I understand if it's built with lime mortar it should be repointed with it and if it was just a case of repointing that would be what I would do but as you can see it's in a real bad state. The spalling is full length of the wall, some bits not quite as bad as the photo but a lot is. Should I just fill the big gaps with some lime mortar and hope for the best? I'm just worried that if something is not done soon it will be beyond repair (think it is now really).

I won't be starting anything for a few months, just trying to get jobs organised for the year.

Other option is I don't do anything, just leave it as a problem for my kids in 20 years time

 

[novocaine]

Ive spent a fair chunk of time pointing and was shown how to do it by one of those old boys.
When i redid our entire house i found i was marginally quicker with the gun and didnt change my mix at all. Guess i got the right gun. Had two on the go,both roughneck brand costing about 16 quid each. While i pointed my FIL refilled the gun. That was a massive help that made all the difference in time taken. (So did the mobile elevated working platform though to be honest).

Moved from that place and now im back having to think about doing it again. Yey.

Back on topic, whilst its a stunning bit of brick work i dont think that face is much longer for this world,although ive seen walls like that last way longer than id have thought possible. Please dont render it. A bit conservation ,point where you can and leave the rest is needed i think.

 

[RogerS]

Still no pictures here. Tried refreshing but no cigar.

 

[The Bear]

No pic for me either. Tried chrome and safari on MacBook and phone
Mark

 

[MARK.B.]

strange the pics were there and now they are gone,did i imagine them ?

 

[RogerS]

.... Lime isn't the right answer if the original mortar was cement based, ... .......

Ah, but there's the rub. How do you know if it wasn't originally lime mortar and then some muppet came along and thought "I'll put in cement". You know they did that at my place with the ensuing problems !

 

[Brandlin]

.... Lime isn't the right answer if the original mortar was cement based, ... .......

Ah, but there's the rub. How do you know if it wasn't originally lime mortar and then some muppet came along and thought "I'll put in cement". You know they did that at my place with the ensuing problems !

My whole house is like that.

 

[RogerS]

.... Lime isn't the right answer if the original mortar was cement based, ... .......

Ah, but there's the rub. How do you know if it wasn't originally lime mortar and then some muppet came along and thought "I'll put in cement". You know they did that at my place with the ensuing problems !

My whole house is like that.

Do you mean it was lime mortar, and you've still got lime mortar but it's now behind cement ?