Rental properties and new EPC rules

[deema]

I’m trying to find the data, but it’s something like China produces more CO2 in one year than the UK has in total since the Industrial Revolution.

 

[Jacob]

I’m trying to find the data, but it’s something like China produces more CO2 in one year than the UK has in total since the Industrial Revolution.

China is highest producer per nation (its a big nation!) but still well down the list per capita.
It's distorted by a rapid industrial catching up operation in recent years but in the past China was low down the list.
China is likely to be well ahead in reducing CO2 in the near future, and os helping the west to catch up by supplying the technology. We have slipped well behind as we have a legacy of stupid climate change sceptics
https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/

 

[deema]

Yes, China is big (1,412 billion) and using @Jacob data produces 7.5 tonnes per person versus 5.5 tonnes per person here in the UK (67.3 million people). Not only does its population dwarf the UK but it produces 136% per person more CO2. it’s like suggesting we put our match whilst watching a forest burn! I love it when the obvious is ignored and the focus is on a mantra that’s pointless.
So, what we are being asked to do in the UK is pay a shed load more for everything to support the green agenda, pay reparations to countries that produce more CO2 per head of population due to climate change they are in fact accelerating and wring our hands in shame for starting the Industrial Revolution that has improved people’s lives beyond measure. No, you might have guessed I don’t get it.

 

[niemeyjt]

Those figures are nonsense.
Solar heating/power in various forms is proven, cost effective and improving rapidly.

That was a screenshot of the section of the official EPC certificate relating to improvements for our rental.

So you think the EPC certificates are nonsense?

 

[Jacob]

That was a screenshot of the section of the official EPC certificate relating to improvements for our rental.

So you think the EPC certificates are nonsense?

Yes. But it's a start. We need massive action from government, not passing the buck down the line to individuals, or blaming China.

 

[niemeyjt]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/22/china-coal-climate-change-xi-energy/
Read and weep - whatever we in the UK do cannot counteract that - meanwhile, we export jobs, destroy our industry and leave the elderly freezing.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, China is big (1,412 billion) and using @Jacob data produces 7.5 tonnes per person versus 5.5 tonnes per person here in the UK (67.3 million people). ....

But still well down the list per capita. Canada, Australia, USA and others more than twice the Chinese per capita rate.
Not sure why we are doing better - maybe the temperate climate, hydro electric and wind generation, short travelling distances?
China also moving fastest towards green technology and supplying the world

 

[deema]

But still well down the list per capita.
China also moving fastest towards green technology.

That was based on data nearly 7 years ago, Chinas economy is growing rapidly, I’m not sure what data your looking at, but if it’s anything like the interpretation of the last, what it’s clearly saying is the opposite to what is being suggested. China produces more CO2 than anyone else, twice that of the next largest and makes the UK’s bit look tokenistic. Everyone of Chinas 1.4 billion population which is still growing produces a shed load more CO2 than the average Joe in Blighty. The UK has moved a long way to curbing its emissions,

https://assets.publishing.service.g...enhouse-gas-emissions-statistical-release.pdf
Now, if the top 5 CO2 producing countries did the same as the UK, we might not be in the position we are in. The data I’ve attached recent rather than historical. The top 5 account for over 50% of all CO2 emissions. Now, if you add the continent of Africa, which has the fastest growing population (as well as fastest growth in CO2 production) and will overtake China in terms of people in the not too distant future you would have Pareto of what and who needs to do what to have any real effect.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1198032/carbon-dioxide-emissions-from-coal-use-in-china/

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There is one industrial company in China (I didn't note the name) that's emissions are greater than Canada's.

 

[niemeyjt]

And we give Chinese companies advantageous access to our markets.

Those that the Gods would destroy, they first make mad.

 

[deema]

This is the most frightening, the countries that have the fastest CO2 production also have the largest or fastest growing populations. If the UK achieves net zero, which is the planned commitment, it will have absolutely no effect at all. We will have paid a fortune for absolutely no effect at all. The rate of population growth is staggering, in Europe it’s stable / falling.

 

[Jacob]

it's easily overlooked but over-population is a species survival mechanism. Where there are most people there will be most survivors. It's common throughout the living world. A pity that evolution isn't bothered about individuals but only about the species.
The good news is of course that where life is safe and secure, reproduction rates fall, and that includes modern China. They were always ahead of the game and had a single child policy, which wasn't successful but the comforts of modern living is having more effect.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022...st nation is,sixth of the world's population.

 

[deema]

Anyone who has read, or knows anything about Chinas one child rule would not advocate it as a progressive policy. To do so is abuse and a complete disregard of any form of humanity.

 

[Jacob]

Anyone who has read, or knows anything about Chinas one child rule would not advocate it as a progressive policy. To do so is abuse and a complete disregard of any form of humanity.

....and they've stopped doing it.
But they were right about the need to reduce population - now they are doing it the more civilised way - by making better quality of life for most.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

In global terms the actions of the UK in reducing greenhouse gases is trivial.

But there are choices - do nothing as it makes little difference, or strive for technical leadership which may be both good business sense and influence global outcomes. Personally I favour the latter.

Chinas growing (and UKs falling) contribution to climate change is through dominance in world manufacturing - evidenced by UK industrial decline (steel, coal, shipbuilding, consumer durables etc) over the last 4 decades with reliance on overseas suppliers.

The total environmental impact of human activity is "population x impact per capita". Regulation, technology and behaviours can influence impacts per capita, but total damage is proportionate to population size.

Malthus proposed that food production will not be able to keep up with growth in the human population, resulting in disease, famine, war, and calamity. Expressed another way - the capacity of the planet to provide would be exceeded by the demands humanity placed upon it.

Food production has increased beyond his expectations, but the demands being place upon the planet now exceed its capacity to supply. Without change the outcome is inevitable.

 

[Jacob]

In global terms the actions of the UK in reducing greenhouse gases is trivial.

In global terms the actions of any single individual is trivial.... still necessary though.

......
Food production has increased beyond his expectations, but the demands being place upon the planet now exceed its capacity to supply. Without change the outcome is inevitable.

Food production isn't the issue (yet) except locally. It needs to be distributed more effectively and the wildest extravagances curbed - particularly meat eating (unfortunately ) but we have massive global capacity.
The big issue is environmental degradation, which will disrupt and interrupt not only food production but also every other human activity, and all life itself.
I think a lot of people haven't yet realised the seriousness of what is going on.

 

[gregmcateer]

First off, I'll declare an interest - I've got a rental property. Accidental landlord when we moved.
The house is a victorian terrace. Previous owner installed concrete ground floor.
Some walls get damp.
EPC E. Not a realistic chance of achieving C, so we're going to sell. Not complaining, just reality.
But, surely a way of raising funds to improve UK housing stock AND raise standards over time, would be to have the seller pay a 'green' tax or stamp duty at sale.
E.g.
C - no tax
D - 1%
E - 2%
Etc etc.

I haven't thought through the pluses and minuses, but it seems a far more straightforward way of improving ALL housing stock over time, not just the 20% odd in the private rented sector.

PS our most recent EPC assessor said the current energy price drama gave caused lower EPC grades, which seems nonsensical. He also said if we cut off the hard wired electric heater and put a plug on it, that gains a point - madness!

 

[Keith Cocker]

A while ago we had central heating work done by British Gas. As part of the deal we got a small govt. grant. They sent an “independent expert” to do an environmental assessment of the house. He recommended underfloor insulation on the ground floor. The ground floor is solid concrete

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes, ours advised to take up every concrete floor in the bungalow and put in insulation. It would have taken about two centuries to justify.

 

[glenfield2]

Basic economics of supply and demand - if supply is below demand, prices will rise. Property is not immune from the fundamentals, save that homelessness is the alternative if both rental or ownership is unaffordable. This is not a socially acceptable outcome.

Markets in a stable environment tend to find an equilibrium - for property this means fairly stable rental and/or ownership costs. Material changes to the financial and regulatory environment creates instability for a period - usually to the (temporary) detriment of housing availability.

Imposition of greater regulation (EPC, tax changes, lease changes) for landlords reduces the supply of rental properties as landlords seek to invest elsewhere. Similarly rapid changes in mortgage interest rates can impact on affordability and house prices.

None of this addresses the fundamental problem - there is too little housing to meet demand, irrespective of whether it is rented or owned.

Regulation to limit empty and second homes is not a solution - disruption created may even worsen housing availability. The UK has the lowest level of empty property in western Europe at about 2% of dwellings, France, Germany, Italy, Spain are all in excess of 8% .

The 2021 census shows the UK population has grown by ~3.5m since 2011. Since then ~1.8m homes have been built - this is a gross figure as many properties will have been lost to redevelopment.

This is not intended as a comment on immigration policy (an entirely separate issue) but illustrates that (at best) housebuilding has just about kept pace with population growth.

The only way to reduce rents and house prices is to build a lot of houses - say 400k pa for the next 5-10 years. Since 1980 all governments have failed with an average build of 200k pa. No amount of regulation or legislation will solve the problem.

It is debatable whether the NIMBY contingent interested in preserving vested interests and wealth, or social conscience with little to lose and much to gain will win the day.

No-one can deny we need more housing but you’ve missed out the word ‘affordable’ in your analysis. IMHO we are caught in a trap at the moment - house prices can’t come down in any real way because they are intrinsic to most people’s personal wealth. A lot of buyers also have big mortgages on essentially poor new housing - small, cramped, badly built. Virtually the back-to-back slums of today.
What we desperately need are more and higher quality rental properties for those who can’t afford or don’t want to buy. Young people starting out in careers need the flexibility of renting to be able to move for jobs. Way back in the ‘70’s I found a new job in London, put my stuff in the back of my old car, drove to a rental agency in Notting Hill and was in a bed-sit that night!