Records Laminated - How Many?

[bugbear]

I make the comment about tungsten not because I expect it to be like the original HSS (definitely not), but because I have had razors that were made in the early 1900s when there was a small craze to advertise tungsten in steel, and they were quite tough. Not close to HSS, but harder to hone than the razors I've had that were very plain steel.

I think razor are tempered differently to woodworking tools. Could be a factor.

BugBear

It can be, but some razors are harder tempered than others. There is some overlap, but my experience with old razors (as in century old) that advertise that they're tungsten steel is that they are tempered harder and much harder to get into good shaving shape than a razor that is advertised as being silver steel or "best crucible steel".

One can't assume razor "tungsten steel" and Record "tungsten steel" are the same; both proportion of tungsten, other components (e.g. vanadium ) and subsequent heat treatment might very well vary.

Fundamentally (to use a GBBO analogy), tungsten is an ingredient, not a recipe.

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Well you can, but you shouldn't.

 

[D_W]

One can't assume razor "tungsten steel" and Record "tungsten steel" are the same; both proportion of tungsten, other components (e.g. vanadium ) and subsequent heat treatment might very well vary.

Fundamentally (to use a GBBO analogy), tungsten is an ingredient, not a recipe.

BugBear

This is becoming sort of a pointless discussion. I don't assume anything other than that the record is honest enough that the irons have tungsten added. What I would've guessed would be that they added tungsten so that they could drive hardness up a couple of clicks, but they didn't.

 

[swagman]

Record 043 cutting a 1/4" groove.

Stewie;

 

[Racers]

A laminated iron will grind quicker than a full steel iron as the backing is softer so you not grinding as much hard steel, I can't see what the OP is complaining about.

Pete

 

[D_W]

I can't see where I was complaining at all. It should be clear that I have a preference for laminated irons in bench planes. I am a little surprised that the irons aren't harder, I guess, but that would not be a complaint from me. I prefer the irons to be about the hardness of a vintage stanley, and it seems in line with that.

To me, one of the biggest letdowns with an iron is when you get a hard one and it microchips all over the place leaving little lines on the work. It doesn't really matter if you're going to scrape something, but it seems to defeat the purpose of making an iron hard to hold an edge if it just lets go of its initial edge. It's something I've seen on modern irons as well as some vintage irons (eskilstuna) that are well regarded but very hard.

 

[D_W]

Aforementioned 4 1/2, still needs a bit of flattening. Strangely, these three records that I've gotten recently all have the toe and heel lower than the mouth. That's a five minute fix at most, but I'm surprised by it. They have to plane the ends off of a flat board before they'll take a through shaving. I have one more stay set plane coming, it'll be interesting to see if it is the same.

This sharpening is just with the cretan. It is by no means a fine stone, but a super fine edge doesn't need to be had to take very thin shavings in agreeable wood like cherry. I'd imagine they are half a thousandth? The thinnest I've measured is about half that much, but I can't ever remember taking shavings even like these on an actual project. (the one on the wax can would look a bit thinner if it were pressed against the lettering).





Freehand, of course! The loveliness of the stones like washita and cretan is that there is no second stone. You hold one angle, that's it, nothing to confuse or chase steeper.

(plus, I couldn't use a guide, the marples catalog says they're for amatuers....

....wait, I'm an amateur).

 

[RossJarvis]

I bought my Record 5 1/2 new in the mid 80s, It has the pressed lateral adjuster. The box states Record Marples and it cost £50.61. The iron is marked Record but very faint, can't see "tungsten" on it, it is not laminated.

I've switched to a Hock iron as the original which was okay blunted reasonably quickly and deformed rather than chipped when hitting things, so seemed soft rather than hard.

It's my favourite plane and if I can really be bothered I'll someday do something about the loose handle.

 

[essexalan]

The Record planes I bought new were 70s/80s and all had tungsten vanadium blades not laminated on the soft side of usable. An older Record #7 has the laminated crucible cast tungsten laminated steel in it which is slightly thicker and neither chips nor folds. The Hock O1 replacement makes a suitable replacement. I find the Records have somewhat more heft to them than the Stanley equivalents of that era but the soles were certainly not flat.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You can often cure the loose handle quite simply - just put a washer or two under the nut if the threaded rod doesn't screw down any tighter.

 

[Vann]

You can often cure the loose handle quite simply - just put a washer or two under the nut if the threaded rod doesn't screw down any tighter.

I usually have trouble finding a washer that fits under the nut. I tend to just grind a bit off the length of the threaded rod.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[D_W]

You can often cure the loose handle quite simply - just put a washer or two under the nut if the threaded rod doesn't screw down any tighter.

I usually have trouble finding a washer that fits under the nut. I tend to just grind a bit off the length of the threaded rod.

Cheers, Vann.

There's no size here at hardware that fits easily (anything big enough for the rod diameter is too big for the hole in the handle where the nut fits), but there are small washers that have too small of a hole, but that are soft and easily drilled.

Any plane I've bought with beech handles has had enough of an issue to either have some of the rod cut or ground off, or to have such washers installed.

 

[D_W]

New one for me tracking all of these planes. One of the things that I got in this large glom of planes is a sorby jointer that someone sold on ebay.

I bought it a fair bit ago now and it's still in the UK because customs there (not sure whose government is in customs, is it UK over there) with the following comment:

"special handling review.", then a subsequent post "restricted item", and finally after 5 days, the status was updated to "Customs Documentation and Labeling".

This is a new one for me!! Never thought a plane was that dangerous. The ebay seller sells stuff quite frequently, too.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I seem to remember using washers like this -
https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/en/p ... 0wodRPEOGw

 

[Racers]

Here are mine.

Best Crucible Cast Steel by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

No4, 4 1/2, 5, 8.

All really nice blades.

Pete

 

[D_W]

Looks like nice planes.

I put a picture of the records I hooked off of ebay on another thread "British invasion". I've got a fifth that an English friend gave me (he's in the states now), but it had a stanley iron as his dad had used it as a carpenter and replaced the iron - unfortunately with a Hock, but I've not got anything else on hand at the moment for it.

 

[mathias]

How identify the laminated irons?

Someone mentioned thickness. I have a N°4 and N°6 with thickness 2.4mm....

The two planes are early Reocrds with square blades and cap irons, supposedly first/early generation by the look of the frogs and other signs but I cannot see if the they have laminated irons.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

When newly ground you will usually be able to see the two different steels - there is a slight difference in the colour of the two steels due to the different alloys and their hardness.

 

[thetyreman]

How identify the laminated irons?

Someone mentioned thickness. I have a N°4 and N°6 with thickness 2.4mm....

The two planes are early Reocrds with square blades and cap irons, supposedly first/early generation by the look of the frogs and other signs but I cannot see if the they have laminated irons.

when you sharpen the blade you should see 2 layers of iron, one of them will be hard, and one soft, the very edge of iron should be harder and a different shade of grey, sharpen it and you'll see.

 

[Racers]

The soft steel will look duller than the hard steel, also the shoulders and top of the blade are straight not rounded, you can see them in my picture.

Prte