xy mosian
Established Member
Sorry Roy I missed your point.
xy
xy
Real woodwork?
- Thread starter Jacob
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Dunno. Which was the point you was making?Digit":1hgjmrht said:
No problem. One of things that annoys me is the oft stated 'decline' in British manufacuring, which is ok, but the assumed reasoning behind it generally is not.
Britain was pretty much the first country into heavy engineering. The first locomotives in the USA, South America, India etc were British made, from there on a decline was inevitable as other countries simply copied the basic model! The same applied to iron ships.
There was no way these countries were going to continue importing what they learned to produce for themselves.
Initially the majority of motor vehicles and aircraft in the UK were of foreign manufacture, till we caught up and started to produce our own.
Initially the States had a monopoly on Radio Valves then subsequently on solid state components, till 'tothers caught up.
These things are a fact of life, the only way we could have continued to sell ships and locos abroad would have been to undercut the price of the locally produced version.
Roy.
Britain was pretty much the first country into heavy engineering. The first locomotives in the USA, South America, India etc were British made, from there on a decline was inevitable as other countries simply copied the basic model! The same applied to iron ships.
There was no way these countries were going to continue importing what they learned to produce for themselves.
Initially the majority of motor vehicles and aircraft in the UK were of foreign manufacture, till we caught up and started to produce our own.
Initially the States had a monopoly on Radio Valves then subsequently on solid state components, till 'tothers caught up.
These things are a fact of life, the only way we could have continued to sell ships and locos abroad would have been to undercut the price of the locally produced version.
Roy.
Modernist
Established Member
What makes products successful in developed countries is design rather than price. There are endless examples, BMW , VW, Apple, Dyson all top price products. The trick is to be the home of that product which doesn't necessarily mean the place of manufacture. Profits for Dyson still come back to the UK, even though they are now made abroad. This is why it is folly to sell off native industry to overseas interests, e.g water and power to the French, sheer lunacy (and short term gain at the expense of the wealth of the country).
To return the subject to the OP cabinetmakers follow the same rule. The UK is especially well represented and our top designer makers certainly don not compete on price.
To return the subject to the OP cabinetmakers follow the same rule. The UK is especially well represented and our top designer makers certainly don not compete on price.
So British employees lose out, which is also a loss of wealth to the country, also if manufacture takes place abroad rather than here there is a loss of tax revenue.
In either case we are not able to compete with those overseas producers because of their lower manufacturing costs, the single largest reason why those items are being produced abroad.
If it was not economical Dyson would not be manufacturing abroad then paying transport costs to ship here.
I rest my case.
Roy.
Modernist
Established Member
Digit":1zlelidl said:
So what do you suggest?
I don't. I simply suggested that instead of knocking Britain without qualification that Guardian post might have been more constructive, as with the link I posted, and before you mention the Mail, Express, Times, Sun, Dandy or Beano I would make exactly the same comment about any organ that published such unqualified critiques.
Roy.
Roy.
t8hants
Established Member
Even as we debate this certain African countries are being groomed by China, so production can be shipped there, when production costs become prohibitive at home. By the time Africa outprices itself Europe may well have suffered a catastrophic economic collapse (or a suitable one engineered) and then the cycle can begin again. After all global companies have no national loyalty, they will take the money where ever it's made, and from whoever is paying.
The answer would have been to never educate the natives, or allow them access to the superior technology required to run the Empire. Having decided this was a bad thing, the rest was inevitable. American blue coller workers were sold down the river for two pandas and the expanded sales of soft drinks and fast food.
G
The answer would have been to never educate the natives, or allow them access to the superior technology required to run the Empire. Having decided this was a bad thing, the rest was inevitable. American blue coller workers were sold down the river for two pandas and the expanded sales of soft drinks and fast food.
G
Let's fast forward G. All major producing countries are now facing similar costs so that manufacture abroad now has no advantage, which is the logical outcome of the present set up. All countries now produce therefore predominantly for home consumption, the major players will then become those sitting on the main sources of raw materials.
Logically South America, looking forward again we will logically see Brazil etc like Saudi, which has a 90%+ level of male unemployment IIRC as they simply hire others to work for them.
Monopolies come and go, the world is full of examples.
Roy.
Logically South America, looking forward again we will logically see Brazil etc like Saudi, which has a 90%+ level of male unemployment IIRC as they simply hire others to work for them.
Monopolies come and go, the world is full of examples.
Roy.
"At its best, the making of things is an all-absorbing activity. It seems odd to have so many people in Britain making things purely as a hobby, when we might be earning our living making high-quality modern products every bit as desirable in their own way as bright new BMWs. The truth is, a consumer or service economy will never make us happy. It is time to curb the shopping, and the environmental destruction this involves, and to rescue ourselves economically, and in terms of wellbeing, through more of us making intelligent, useful and profitable things contentedly and well."[/quote]
When I first posted this, I intended only to draw attention to the acknowledgement in the article that many people enjoy making things and that this contributes to the well-being of those who do. In this regard, it contributes to, or reinforces, much that has been said on this thread. The economic arguments are another issue.
I hadn't expected it to lead to attacks on the Guardian and, by implication, to contempt of anyone who reads it. As far as I'm concerned, when I read the Guardian or any other newspaper I do what I'm sure the rest of you do - which is to weigh up where I stand on the issue being discussed or reported. When I stop doing that, I'll know there's no point in reading anything.
When I first posted this, I intended only to draw attention to the acknowledgement in the article that many people enjoy making things and that this contributes to the well-being of those who do. In this regard, it contributes to, or reinforces, much that has been said on this thread. The economic arguments are another issue.
I hadn't expected it to lead to attacks on the Guardian and, by implication, to contempt of anyone who reads it. As far as I'm concerned, when I read the Guardian or any other newspaper I do what I'm sure the rest of you do - which is to weigh up where I stand on the issue being discussed or reported. When I stop doing that, I'll know there's no point in reading anything.
Benchwayze
Established Member
Edwin":5nffchy6 said:
=D>
Unless corrected I assume that means me, a Guardian reader, but that seems to suggest that you have missed all the contemptuous comments about readers of the Mail, which happens to be the reason I have retaliated against the Guardian readers?
And whilst I agree with your comments about consumerism
I would reflect on the environmental costs of BMW production.
Agreed, but I doubt that possession of a BMW is the way to a life of fullfillment either.
Roy.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Well said, but Digit works to different rules! :lol: :lol:Edwin":32tmj06v said:
Lons
Established Member
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Stilll puts a smile on my face every time I drive mine though Roy :lol:
