Rate Festo circular saws

[Anonymous]

TS55 + Guide Rail + 48 Tooth Blade = £379 NOT £400 + not sure where you get that from?

Spitting hairs a little here Byron? £21 difference :lol: :lol:

Don't forget P&P :wink:

You cannot compare a tablesaw to a Festool circular saw. Different tools for different jobs. A table saw excels in areas where a Festool circular saw can only manage to perform reasonably well (with extra jigs?), and can do things a Festool will not, whereas a circular saw can do things that you could not easily do with a tablesaw such as ripping large boards


Tim

What I find so extraordinary about this (lets be honest) oft repeated debate is the vehement way that some non owners say don't buy one

I am not and do not say to anyone "don't buy one", each to their own, it's their money and they will and should buy whatever they want.

I completely agree with you that a circular saw is ideal for breaking down large sheets and that's all I use my B&Q one for. At the end of the day, this is what a circular saw is for.

In my experience and opinion, expensive does not necessarily mean better.

Possibly Festool build quality is to ahigher standard than B&Q, but not Metabo, Maffell etc.. Having said that, a hobbyist (we are mostly hobbyists here) doesn't use a circular saw that often and so average build quality is good enough in my opinion.
I have tried a couple of Festool saws and several other manufacturers tools too and I would not agree that the Festool is any 'better' than a Hitachi etc. at cutting wood.

That is not the same as saying someone should not pay that much if they want one, just that the only thing they are buying above an Hitachi, Mafell etc.is a feeling of owning a perceived 'quality saw' which, of course, might be what they want. Personally , I just want to cut wood and tools do not interest me per se (only their use)

What matters at the end of the day is being happy with one's choice.

The thing that winds me up about the oft repeated Festool saw debate is when people say that Festool saws are the 'best' when, in my experience, they do not cut any better than a saw half the price. To me that makes them no better than the competition, over-priced and so poor value for money.


By the way, how often do people use their circular saws? I haven't used mine in 2007 yet as the need has not arisen.

 

[ByronBlack]

Tony your points are very personal to your experience only. I have owned both hitachi and festool as mentioned a couple of times, and the festool at its basic level DOES cut the wood better, I know this for a known fact! I get splinter free, perfect cuts everytime with the festool. I never got that quality from the hitachi, so yes it IS a better saw.

It's also more safe, it's better made, it has a longer warrenty, it has better dust extraction which is important if cutting MDF and the like, it has a better angle adjustment for bevel cuts, the plunge is an excellent feature, the motor is better, the brake is faster... I could go on and on. So to try and say that it's only my 'perpeption' of owning a quality tool is frankly quite patronising.

And I wasn't splitting hairs regarding the pricing. The price of the festool is what is at the centre of the debate, so therefore it's important to get the facts right. You intimated that it cost more than £400 where in fact doesn't. Without the rail the saw is not too much more than the hitachi (i've not checked on the exact price as it stands now though). And for all the extra benefits and quality then it's no wonder that a BETTER saw costs MORE money (Sorry for caps, I couldn't be bothered to use the bold to emphasise).

Also, I can compare a festool to a tablesaw as I use mine in place of a TS and it's handles all the operations that I would be using a tablesaw for - all be it with a few home-made jigs. But then you show me a TS that isn't more useful with a few jigs.

A circuler saw isn't just for breaking down large sheets. As mentioned, the finish cut I get with my festool is good enough to joint with, you can't do that with a hitachi - I know, i tried in vain!

Also, your point about 'us' hobbyists not using a CS that often again is very personal to you. I personally use mine everytime I work on a project which is almost every evening and weekend as i'm sure others do too.

I would like to know how you graded the cuts from a festool and a hitachi and didn't see a difference, maybe I used my hitachi differently to yours, but the difference was staggeringly obvious to me.

BTW, due to the written word Tony, I don't want you to think that this is any way a personal attack on you, I'm just interesting in carrying on the debate as I feel it's an interesting one. All in good sport

 

[Roy Clarke]

A circuler saw isn't just for breaking down large sheets. As mentioned, the finish cut I get with my festool is good enough to joint with, you can't do that with a hitachi - I know, i tried in vain!

Are you saying the finish on a rip cut is DEAD smooth? I have a TS55 and using either the 28 or 48 tooth blade, I get saw marks on the faces. This is with two different machines, on both hard wood and soft wood. I took the first one back to Festool, spent a couple of hours with them, and they replaced the saw, as it appeared to cut better than the first one.

When I got home, I find I can still get tooth marks in the faces. This does not support Festools claim of "Perfect cuts". It feels like a well built machine, and the guide rail system makes life easy, but am I expecting too much by looking for a planed finish, which I CAN get with an ancient, poorly adjusted, Dewalt RAS.

 

[ByronBlack]

Roy it's impossible for me to say why you are not getting the same cuts as me - are you using the zero clearance thingy-amebob? Did you cut the rubber on the guide rail correctly, are you using the correct speed/feed rate. Have you used the blade a lot on abrasive materials such as MFC and Ply etc.. this will effect the blade..


No matter what tool we are talking about there is always going to be some who love it and some who don't, I can speak for why you're not satsified with yours, all I know is i'm well chuffed with mine and so are thousands of others, so it can't be all bad.

My final input on this thread: You pays your money, you takes your choice!

 

[Neil]

Roy,

The pieces for this solid Sapele bath surround were jointed off the saw - its not completely clear in the pic but the joints are as good as I now get from my Jet 54A planer. The supplied 48-tooth blade was fairly new at the time, but it had still had a fair amount of use on man-made boards before this project. I use the Jet for most of my jointing now, but I go back to using the TS55 when the stock has grain reversals which tear-out on the planer. (Alf, I also joint by hand sometimes, I promise O :lol

The finish on less well-mannered woods than Sapele (e.g. AWO) is still excellent with the 48-tooth blade but for thick stock the saw gets bogged down a bit with the supplied blade so I tend to use a 12-tooth rip blade instead and then tidy up the edge afterwards - mostly using the planer or a hand-plane, but occasionally using the 48-tooth blade for a dust-cut.

I'm a bit puzzled as to why you are getting saw marks? It sounds like the toe-in on the saw isn't set up correctly - see this post (shame John has pulled the pic )

I don't use the zero-clearance insert for anything other than man-made boards, by the way.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[engineer one]

certainly the cherry i had ripped earlier in the year has no discernible saw marks, and we did that on the floor and moved the rail system :?
paul :wink:

 

[tim]

Roy

The only thing I can think of is that there may be too much side play of the saw on the guide rail. It should move easily along the rail but have almost no side play. It should also be 'toed-in' ie the saw should be fractionally angled in relation to the cut. Its detailed in the owner's manual.

I took a couple of quick photos this morning of some parts I cut last night. (note - must get better camera). This is the sort of cut that I would expect every time. Its a 48 tooth blade but its not new - its cut at least 40 sheets of birch ply into bookcases and shelves.

and compared with a factory edge (on the right!):

Hope that helps
edit:
I would recommend using this manual by Rick Christopherson - its the US saw but its setup etc appears to be the same. I think its generally acknowledged that Festool's own documents are pretty feeble.
http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/docs/TS_55_EQ_US.pdf

point 7 on p12 will give you the toe in info that I have used which is nothing like the 1mm that is shown in John Elliott's post.



Cheers

Tim

 

[Corset]

I bought a secondhad festool saw an old festo atf55 model. I too had iffy cuts and followed the toe adjustments made a massive difference until i cut through a nail and now need a new blade. Great saw but with the guide rail it was half the price of new one. Its my first choice for plywood et al. I think it must be some years olds and still going strong and there is still parts backup something which i feel is always worth supporting a higher initial price for.
As i have been learning it has made my work alot more accurate and i am glad i spent the extra on it. I think its system allows those less skilled like me to get better results, which has got to be worth something. If you are a pro you probably have the skill to use a tool better etc.
The dust extraction cannot be over rated in my opinion its brill.
Owen

 

[Roy Clarke]

Thanks for the pics Tim. I'll do a couple of plywood cuts to compare, but I don't recall a problem with plywood, only rip cuts in timber (which I'll also post a couple of).

The manual link is much better than the book that comes with the saw. That only mentions the angle adjustment, and that it can be carried out by the after sales team. Not very useful.

 

[Keith Smith]

These are the results I got when I tried ripping softwood with various blades in my TS 55. The Freud blade is an LP40M 007, 40 tooth blade, the Trend a 24 tooth Craft Pro.

 

[ivan]

I have tried both Festool and Mafell, and bought the latter, as also very well made plunge saw, and a less dramatic price. It lacks the Festool chip contollers, whish work well when new, but this is bettered (IMHO) by double cutting - shallow climb cut from far side to near, full cut back again from near to far side of sheet. You have a portable scoring saw!

PS. Those cuts look dreadful; either whole saw, or blade teeth, must be wobling all over the place. The Mafell saw with a 24 tooth GP blade leaves no marks on birch ply.

 

[Keith Smith]

PS. Those cuts look dreadful; either whole saw, or blade teeth, must be wobling all over the place. The Mafell saw with a 24 tooth GP blade leaves no marks on birch ply.

There is nothing wrong with those cuts nor the saw, if a 24tooth blade gave a perfect cut every time why would anyone make blades with more teeth :?

If the saw was wobbling about as you suggest how come the top cut is more or less perfect?

Plus you are not comparing like for like, the Panther blade has 14 teeth and the Standard just 12, plus this is ripping softwood not birch ply which would naturally show less marks.

Finally bear in mind I've taken the photograph to highlight the differences in the quality of the finished cut so it has been illuminated along its length.