Rali Planes & Chisels

[Sawyer]

http://www.rali.fr/rabots/rali-professi ... ution.html

http://www.rali.fr/

I was at 'Expobois 2014' in Paris this week and had the chance to 'test drive' some of these Swiss planes. Not really my cup of tea, but interesting all the same and worth sharing on the forum.

The flagship is the general purpose Rali 220, more or less equivalent to a no. 4. Despite its plasticky appearance and disposable blades, it had a certain air of quality and performed well on the test piece, which was the 25mm edge of a thoroughly docile piece of softwood (therefore, about the easiest test possible). I was not able to check the sole for flatness and squareness, but it was certainly good enough to produce full length, even and thin shavings on a test piece about 2' long (as I say, not the most rigorous of tests). Depth adjustment is by the red plastic lever and is easy and precise. No lateral adjustment as far as I could tell, but with disposable blades, perhaps it's unnecessary. Blade change is very quick and easy.

The eager salesman was stressing the economic advantages of disposable blades (double-sided; 36 Euros for 10 = currently £2.86 per blade), till I pointed out that during any serious, artisan-style planing, a sharp edge might last around 5 minutes. Yes, I'd save some time, but could be spending about £17 an hour on blades! The tungsten carbide blades (47 Euros per 10) may be an advantage to some, perhaps. I then began explaining about cambered blades, and was told that they offer a choice of straight or cambered blades - so full marks to Rali on that one.

The shoulder plane can be set up with a rebate fence, which can go on either side and performed well on the docile test piece, although there is no depth stop.

They also do chisels with disposable tips of varying widths. :roll: Sorry; they're just horrible! The chisel itself is too lightweight to stand up to any serious bashing, and the tip, which clips in, has slight play. Nor is it as sharp as we could get a normal chisel by simple everyday techniques. I began a mortice (!) but didn't relish the embarrassment of breaking their demo tool.

So: the 220 would perhaps be worthwhile as a site tool. Not appealing in a workshop environment though ?
The salesman tried his hardest, to no avail in my case - even at the considerably reduced show price of 106 Euros (about £85). It's fair to say that the Rali is better than it looks (except the chisels), but there is no way that it is ever going earn a space in the tool cupboard amongst my array of Sheffield's finest.

 

[matthewwh]

Having had the same experience and drawn exactly the same conclusions, I reckon that's a very fair assessment.

Lovely guys, plenty of enthusiasm and effort, but Darwinism still favours Mr Bailey.

 

[Fromey]

Looks just the thing for woodworking in space. Good luck to them, but I suspect their's will be a niche market.

 

[AndyT]

IIRC Axminster had these in their catalogue for a while - I hesitate to say they used to sell them!

Thanks Sawyer, for confirming my suspicions!

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

If I worked on a job site and only planed bland pine, and never needed a plane to deal with anything more complicated, the Rali would look good. Throw in replaceable blades that are sharp enough, and its a done deal.

It is a bit expensive compared to used cabinetmaking tools. Still, anyone who considers that this is a plane for building furniture is very unenlightened.

Blue should ensure that it is easier to find.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[JimB]

Derek, I think this is one of the rare cases where you need a colour that is easier to lose.

 

[RogerP]

I think this is the sort of product, like printers, where they'd probably be better more or less giving it away at cost and rely on making money on the consumables.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Is it my imagination, or are those cross-headed screws on the "#4" proud of the frame (which I assume is pressed steel)? If so, how are you supposed to use the thing in any application where you want to run it up against something, for example trimming miters?

The chisels strike me as a "because we can" product.

It's a shame: Stanley had disposable blades decades ago, and they didn't really catch on for fine work, for obvious reasons. A bit of market research would have forewarned Rali. Stanley also didn't sell replaceable-blade chisels, but you have to assume they could have, if they'd decided it was worthwhile. That also should have been something for Rali to ponder, before putting the effort in.

There must be some market for their ideas though. It's not a bad use of modern materials and techniques to make the thing, even if the actual application is a poor choice (in our opinion, generally).

Matthew and Sawyer, do either of you think they can produce wickedly sharp edges, or are they just suitable for rough site work in deal?

I ask because I find sharpening things like small spokeshave cutters to be a pain, and my use is quite occasional. A good quality, i.e. really sharp, blade in that context might be worth it. To be honest, I am struggling to think of an application where they do represent a compelling choice over really good steel.

E.

 

[Woodchips2]

I presume you don't have to chuck the blades away but could sharpen them and reuse. However compared to a traditional Stanley or Record smoothing plane it doesn't look very comfortable to grip or use for long periods.

Regards Keith

 

[Shrubby]

The company also makes the Tersa blade system
I tried the block plane 20 years ago and found it a bit clunky.The smoothers are made in a 'British shape' as well as the European style - I'll be sticking with my Ulmia though
Matt

 

[Sawyer]

Erik; it's not your imagination, those bolts protrude slightly, so no good for using on its side, eg. on a shooting board.
The blades were sharp and performed well on the very unchallenging test piece. Anybody proficient at sharpening, will have no trouble producing an edge at least as: - or sharper than a new Rali blade.

Keith; no doubt the blades could be re-sharpened, but they are very small, so it would be fiddly and would rather defeat the point of the Rali. I routinely re-sharpen Stanley Knife blades, but they are larger and can be left in the handle, so easy to hold.

Yikes! Did I mention sharpening? #-o 8-[
** Dons tin hat and retires behind parapet **

 

[matthewwh]

.....Quickly steps in to avert a sharpening debate.....

The blades are undoubtedly sharp, but they perfectly illustrate that sharpness isn't everything - the essence of a plane's job is to hold a blade solidly, so that it cannot deflect or vibrate.

The opposite end of the same scale is a Clifton, with a sizeable single piece of steel, only hardened where it needs to be, and solidly clamped between the softer material of the upper cap iron and the frog.

 

[Corneel]

But the weird thing is, they succeed to survive. They are available as long as I can remember (which isn't too long, I must say...). So there must be a market for these things. I remember a video about a girl doing an aprentenceship in Germany in a shop where they made the wooden parts for the bodies of old fashioned trucks, and they had one of these planes in the video.

 

[Trafalgar]

They make at least one blade which can be re-sharpened: https://www.advmachinery.com/p-140-resh ... -260l.aspx

Rali seem have been around as long as I've been woodworking - thirty years or so. Somebody is buying them.