Rail Squares

[marcros]

I have the Festool ts55 saw. I am thinking of getting a rail square to go with it, but there are a few out there.

Peter Millard reviewed this one on YouTube and spoke highly of it. Benchdogs Rail Square - Festool / Makita / Triton / Evolution the company do some interesting extras which may be useful in the future but for now I would get the basic version.

There is also this alternative TSO Products GRS-16 Guide Rail Square

this one Taiga Tools Rail Square for Festool & Makita Guide Rails | Protrade

Festool's own Festool Angle stop FS-WA/90° 205229

probably others too.

are they much of a muchness, or can anybody offer any pearls of wisdom?

 

[DBT85]

I'm guessing they are all much of a muchness since they are all basically the same idea. They are also so very expensive for what they are, I think.

Peter also did a video just a few days ago about making your own to see if it's something to really need.

 

[MikeK]

I have the TSO guide rail squares and parallel guides, and can't find any fault with them. The Festool guide is a licensed version of the TSO Products GRS-16PE.

 

[transatlantic]

The benchdog one seems to have more features, assuming you have an Mft type top

 

[marcros]

The benchdog one seems to have more features, assuming you have an Mft type top

I do, although it needs replacing at some point. I like the concept of the integration into the mft, and I like the theory that if I ever needed to use it on a bevelled edge, I could buy an adaptor to make it work. They dont seem to be outrageous on the pricing of their extra dogs.

 

[DBT85]

They only just had a 20% off weeked too, on everything except rail squares mind.

 

[marcros]

They only just had a 20% off weeked too, on everything except rail squares mind.

benchdogs did?
that is annoying! I am in no hurry so will keep an eye open for the future.

I have the mft top, and their fence system looks a useful addition. I am just struggling to work out what gives me the most bang for buck. The fence system with flag stops would enable me to cut accurately to length, the rail dogs would ensure cross cuts are square. this lot would be £130 give or take. I think it would give me the equivalent of the mft which is substantially more and probably does more than I would need (eg angled cuts).

The rail square is about the same price if you add the rail dogs which Peter showed in his video. I already have a set of standard and part dogs. It looks more useful in that it can be used without the mft if necessary but doesn't have the flag stops to aid with cutting multiple parts to the same length.

 

[Doug71]

Watching with interest as I have a panelling job coming up soon which justifies me getting one.

I am thinking either Benchdogs or Festools own (TSO licensed). The thing that the Festool/TSO has going for it is the TSO parallel guide/length stop system, it looks really handy but gets a bit spendy. Guess if you get the Festool/TSO you have the option to add later.


https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/tpg-20-tpg-30-parallel-guide-system-right-hand/

 

[marcros]

I like that parallel system. for me, I suppose it depends whether I want to use the mft top or not. if not, the square is the answer, ideally with the parallel guides. if using the mft, the fence system is probably better.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

I have the TSO version, bought several years ago when it was the only one available, and it's my second most used tool after the rails.

If I were buying today then I might well get the benchdogs one instead, due to the extras that can be added.

I definitely would not just get the fence or rails only as they serve a different purpose and limit you to using a holy top of some kind.

 

[petermillard]

Sorry, late to this thread. I’m a rail square convert, having been a bit dismissive of them after my early experiences with a basic DeWalt version (now sold as the Triton). I’m trying to get all the squares together for a ‘rail square roundup’ vid, as the choice and differences between them is a bit baffling tbh. The FC Tools one (Hybrid rail sq) is the only one that does both Festool pattern rails and DeWalt - though I’m not sure how many people have both systems tbh. Plus there are cheapie squares on eBay as well, of course.

I thought the TSO square also had the option for MFT dogs, but I may be mistaken, never had my hands on one.

The Fencedogs system is great for repetitive cuts (video soon) but obvs. requires an MFT-style top; parallel guides are easy to make though.

p.s. 5% discount at Benchdogs with the offer code ‘10minuteworkshop’

 

[transatlantic]

I really don't understand why anyone would buy a cheaper Triton/Titan/Aldi/Lidl etc track saw and then spend hundreds on a rail square.

I appreciate not everyone can afford the better quality saws, but it seems a bit silly.

 

[marcros]

I think I will go with the Benchdogs one. I like to support smaller companies where I can, particularly British ones.

I like the idea of the parallel guides on the TSO, but it becomes expensive very quickly. I dont think that I would use them enough to justify the expense and I may try to make a set of guides. For now I have the veritas ruler stop.The FC Tools one is also more than I can justify.

 

[DBT85]

I really don't understand why anyone would buy a cheaper Triton/Titan/Aldi/Lidl etc track saw and then spend hundreds on a rail square.

I appreciate not everyone can afford the better quality saws, but it seems a bit silly.

The cheaper saw does the same job as the more expensive saw, it just doesn't have the refinement of the more expensive saw. No soft start, fiddly depth stop, riving knife,duat collection, etc etc.

A squares, a square. There are no cheap options outside of making one as Peter did in his video.

The larger issue is track compatibility with the squares. Evolution I don't think work with any of them, aldi ones don't either. Titan I think Peter said works with the benchdogs one. So you need branded track anyway. A shame as the evolution 2.8m track is great and reasonable in price.

 

[transatlantic]

The cheaper saw does the same job as the more expensive saw, it just doesn't have the refinement of the more expensive saw. No soft start, fiddly depth stop, riving knife,duat collection, etc etc.

That was kind of my point ...

 

[jvc26]

The larger issue is track compatibility with the squares. Evolution I don't think work with any of them, aldi ones don't either. Titan I think Peter said works with the benchdogs one. So you need branded track anyway. A shame as the evolution 2.8m track is great and reasonable in price.

Not used myself, but the Benchdogs one here includes Evolution on the list of tracks, which would suggest it should work - drop them a line if unsure, they’re very responsive (no relation myself, but have been interested since Peter Millards videos on it.

 

[DBT85]

Not used myself, but the Benchdogs one here includes Evolution on the list of tracks, which would suggest it should work - drop them a line if unsure, they’re very responsive (no relation myself, but have been interested since Peter Millards videos on it.

Ahh OK, Peters video from 3 months ago showed it not fitting so it's possible they changed something to make it work. He did say he'd sent a section of evolution rail to BDUK to play with.

That was kind of my point ...

I don't understand? You can work with a less refined tool but still need square cuts.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

The cheaper saw does the same job as the more expensive saw, it just doesn't have the refinement of the more expensive saw. No soft start, fiddly depth stop, riving knife,duat collection, etc etc.

That is saying that The Dacia Sandero does the same job as the Rolls-Royce Phantom apart from almost everything.

If your budget is only enough for a cheap track saw buy a cheap track saw, but the comparison between it and a Festool or Mafell is similar to the car analog.

you have also missed the cut quality, lifespan and how much better a quality tool is to use. So does it do the same job? The majority will disagree.

 

[DBT85]

That is saying that The Dacia Sandero does the same job as the Rolls-Royce Phantom apart from almost everything.

If your budget is only enough for a cheap track saw buy a cheap track saw, but the comparison between it and a Festool or Mafell is similar to the car analog.

you have also missed the cut quality, lifespan and how much better a quality tool is to use. So does it do the same job? The majority will disagree.

Much of that is covered in my use of etc etc. They are clearly better tools and I only recently got a ts55 myself. But, like the car analogue, it still gets you from a to b, which is actually the point of the car. The phantom will get you there in style and comfort and will be a better ride, but you still went to the same place. Naturally, if you have the money, you don't buy the Dacia.

My point is that you can want a cheap tracksaw and still want a rail square, because you might still need to make square cuts. That the rail square will cost more than the saw is indeed daft, but depending on use case and the person in question, £250 on a cheap saw, square and the 2.8m evolution rail will get you a long way and both the square and the rail will work with a better quality saw.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

My point is that you can want a cheap tracksaw and still want a rail square, because you might still need to make square cuts. That the rail square will cost more than the saw is indeed daft,

No it is not daft. Going back to the previous comparison it’s like buying Pirelli Stelvio Corsa tyres (you cannot but the analogy is valid) for your Dacia. The tyres would cost much more than the car, you don’t have the performance to use them to the max but does that make the price for the tyres Daft? Of course not.

Why do you expect high quality, precision machined, low production number items to be sold at a cheap price to match a cheap saw.

That is how you sound, possibly not what you intended but how it comes across.

If enough people want a cheap add on rail square then a stamped cheap one or bulk machined one (with little or no QC) may be produced, it won’t have the precise fit, accuracy or durability, but since the cheap track saws can’t match the accuracy and glue ready cuts of the good track saws it will be good enough.