Queen Elizabeth has passed away.

[Spectric]

Well there is light at the end of the tunnel, tommorow she will be in her slot in the crypt and everything can get back to some form of normality, many people will come back to earth with a bang and have to face reality and get on with living.

The one thing about the partition of India is that no one can blame the Americans for this one unlike so many other disasters that they were involved in and the british must have had some part to play but like most of these events it was the people who lived there that suffered whilst the people who caused the problem just watch from afar.

 

[Jacob]

.... Methinks, there's a touch of bitterness there, Jacob. Is your given name have anything to do with that?

What is it that you are trying to say?

 

[J-G]

That's odd, so you're saying that the British had nothing to do with the creation of Pakistan and the partition of India and it was all Jinnah and Nehrus' fault.

I would take Nehru out of that equation. Jinnah was intransigent and jealous of Nehru so did all he could to disrupt the whole process.

 

[Jacob]

I would take Nehru out of that equation. Jinnah was intransigent and jealous of Nehru so did all he could to disrupt the whole process.

Yes but the whole scenario was a result of British imperialism which was a disaster for almost all involved and still playing out. Not even particularly profitable for the principle operatives - Imperialism (Hobson book) - Wikipedia.
Interesting quote from the above link:
"A capitalist society could avoid resorting to imperialism through the radical re-distribution of the national economic resources among the society, and so increase the economic-consumption power of every citizen."
Says it all in a nutshell.
Somebody needs tell Liz Truss!

 

[Spectric]

Maybe the Chinese are showing us how to benefit from the wealth of other countries, not by claiming them as part of an empire and ruling them but by building vast amounts of infrastructure like railways and schools in exchange for minerals.

"A capitalist society could avoid resorting to imperialism through the radical re-distribution of the national economic resources among the society, and so increase the economic-consumption power of every citizen."

That is the fundamental issue for many countries and the UK is high on the list. Liz truss is already showing her views, "the workers are lazy" and she is helping the wealthy with her financial plans so don't expect a bright future. The cake is more than big enough for everyone to have a slice but that would mean bringing down the barriers and the wealthy sharing, having a fair society where everyone is equal is not even on the list for that sector of society and unfortunately the outdated class system is being kept alive.

 

[GweithdyDU]

But how big is the Herd?, take a look at how many thousands/millions have travelled to pay their respects to the late queen as against how many can sit at home and po po it.

But still a very small percentage of the 67 million + that live in the UK currently. NOT a comment either way on the monarchy. Can't be bothered either way either as it makes no difference to the issues I'm interested in solving in the Dis-United Kingdom. Things like child-poverty, the fact that 86% of Autistic women have been victims of sexual assault and or domestic violence, people with dementia being made incontinent when they go into hospital or care because it is easier (even though it often creates more expensive for the state n the long run), the break up of this Dis-United Kingdom, rising hate crime against disabled people, etc. (the list is a long one). Scrapping the monarchy won't solve these issues and just imagine if we had some of the UK's big name politicians as a president! Not having a monarchy hasn't stopped the US political system turning to uber-right wing raspberry juice has it!

But back to the monarchy and the death of the Queen. My take is 'leave them alone right now'. They've lost a Mum, Nain, Aunty etc.. None of my business as grief is a personal thing and I'm not connected to the Windsors. I actually find it distasteful and almost cruel to turn the personal grief of a family into a public spectacle of vicarious/pseudo affection. People leaving teddies as if they themselves were connected at a familial level to HM. A comment from one visitor to the Queen's coffin summed it up for me "Seeing the Queen's coffin helped me with my own grief". Exactly! What YOU need and want, it makes YOU feel better. A sort of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy way of thinking. Imagine, your Mum has just died,you're dealing with arguments about who you're going to invite to the funeral, the grandchildren that have fallen out with each other, the will, funeral arrangements, Dad's second-wife, Nain's photo album, etc etc. and now you have to go and smile and greet thousands of members of the public, have every move you make analysed by the press and be subjected to criticism and speculation from the press etc.; regardless of political options about the monarchy, that's just cruel. Especially when you most likely want/need to shout "(insert own expletive)" down the toilet and flush it away.

Both rabid monarchy lovers and haters, please just leave then alone to grieve in private and display some common humanity and compassion. Both groups are as bad as each other over not having any of either over the death of Queen Elizabeth the Second. I'll be fixing the flashings onto my newly built stable today and not watching the funeral of HM. I always found it a bit disturbing that people go to funerals of people they weren't friends with or related to.

 

[Spectric]

You have said it well @GweithdyDU , this is just a funeral of a 96 year old but because she is a " queen " it has just become one huge circus with the family as the performers. At what point did we change our mind about the paparazzi and news coverage invading peoples right to privacy, I think the monarchy has taken this opportunity to try and prop themselves up after having a rough decade and with Harry about to dish the dirt.

please just leave then alone to grieve in private and display some common humanity and compassion

But is it not the monarchy that has put there head above the parapet and shoved themselves into our faces at every opportunity on every channel for days, before that we thought the tory leadship contest was draged out but this fiasco just defies dignity. Prince Philip's funeral was dignified, it reflected upon his life and he chose to have a royal ceremonial funeral and not a state funeral, this choice was made before covid so it was his wishes which reflects upon his humanity.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I decided to look at some objective facts rather than shoot from the hip emotive outpourings:

Food banks - Last year were used by ~2.2m. Simple maths suggests, therefore that ~97% of people did not use a food bank, or if based on households ~94% of people did not use a food bank.

Suggesting large swathes of the UK are so reliant is emotive nonsense. Those who have genuine need should not be ignored - they clearly need (and should receive) targeted support.

Monarchy - a You-gov poll in June 2022 showed only 62% in favour of a continuing monarch (down from 75% a decade earlier) giving rise to the assertion that the monarchy was in its final throes.

There are of course lies, damn lies and statistics. The same poll showed only 22% in favour of an elected head of state. The remaining 16% may have been don't know or don't care.

How statistics are interpreted often depends on preconceived outcomes, not objective analysis.

UK standard of living - the UK GDP per capita using purchasing power parity is close to the EU average. Poland is 25% lower. Based on nominal GDP Poland is ~60% lower.

As a major plank of EU strategy is "levelling up" (a familiar phrase) individual members, it is unsurprising the ex-eastern bloc countries are increasing more rapidly.

BTW I am not defending the UK record of economic or social governance, simply pointing out that glib statements are less convincing than reasoned analysis.

Colonial apologists - not an objective analysis - just realism. Human beings are competitive in seeking status, material wealth, control etc. In this they are no different to animals who compete for "leader of the pack" often to ensure reproduction of the best genetic material.

Within society we compete, usually within a framework of rules and social conventions, for wealth, position, and all that it brings - better food, holidays, cars, education, health care etc etc. Unless faced with a major threat, AFAIK no country has succeeded in eliminating competitive drive.

The empire was an outcome of competitive drive. The UK was very good at it. Russia, China and the US have now come to dominate.

Apologising for actions a long time past which underpin survival (at a basic level) and progress is just an empty gesture (sanctimonious claptrap). This is entirely different to actions taken in respect of more recent abuses where those still alive have suffered - eg: Windrush, contaminated blood.

 

[Spectric]

You missed out child poverty

" 1-in-4 children living in poverty set to worsen during cost of living crisis 12 July 2022. New figures released today show 3.6 million children are still living in poverty in the UK, down 200,000 (-2%) on the year before. "

In a so called modern G7 country what is the excuse for any reliance on food banks, child poverty or homelessness. Then do you think our living standards are great for all, inflation at 10% means your income is worth 10% less and we must all have noticed the increased cost when we go shopping.

This is all the fault of our government, only they have the power to inact change and instead have just watched us sink, imigration out of control and an energy crisis, just imagine what Lizzy might have said to our PM had she been allowed to instead of just having to watch the mess unfold.

 

[rogxwhit]

Somebody needs tell Liz Truss!

I think she is fairly deaf ...!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There will always be child poverty as long poverty is defined by a fixed percentage. We could be multi millionaires and a mere millionaire would be classed as living in poverty.

 

[Jacob]

Within society we compete, usually within a framework of rules and social conventions, for wealth, position, and all that it brings - better food, holidays, cars, education, health care etc etc. Unless faced with a major threat, AFAIK no country has succeeded in eliminating competitive drive.

Human development has come about by cooperation at every level throughout history. The myth of competition as a major force is just a right wing fantasy - an attempt to justify unbalanced distributions of wealth.

The empire was an outcome of competitive drive. The UK was very good at it. Russia, China and the US have now come to dominate.

According to Hobson the UK was very bad at it and the empire a complete waste. Russia is bad at it too.

Apologising for actions a long time past which underpin survival (at a basic level) and progress is just an empty gesture (sanctimonious claptrap). This is entirely different to actions taken in respect of more recent abuses where those still alive have suffered - eg: Windrush, contaminated blood.

It's not about apologising it's about remedying the effects which are still with us, and in the process recognising what got us to this position. Recommended reading Black and British by David Olusoga review – reclaiming a lost past

 

[Jacob]

There will always be child poverty as long poverty is defined by a fixed percentage. We could be multi millionaires and a mere millionaire would be classed as living in poverty.

Don't be silly it isn't defined by a fixed percentage.
"Poverty is a state or condition in which a person or community lacks the financial resources and essentials for a minimum standard of living. Poverty means that the income level from employment is so low that basic human needs can't be met".
There is a point at which people find themselves ill/un-housed, unfed, ill and untreated etc etc. I think you'd recognise it very easily if you found yourself there!

 

[AJB Temple]

I know you are keen to turn everyone to your biased viewpoint Jacob, but I think there is increasingly a backlash against BLM, bbc style woke viewpoints etc. When it is repeated too often the message becomes inaudible and can even create a backlash. BLM factions for example create anti BLM factions. You can replace BLM with whatever you like: a religious creed for example.

The non-white segment of the UK population is somewhere around 15% (guesses vary) and the black portion of that is somewhere around a third. It does not mean there is anything special about it - it's just a fact.

It is also not the responsibility of those living today to remedy the effects of actions of those who are long dead. No one inherits responsibility for past events that may have seemed OK then but are regarded as wrong now through the judgemental telescope of history. We just live our lives mostly doing the best we can, with whatever beliefs and morals we choose to have. They will be different for everyone.

 

[thetyreman]

There will always be child poverty as long poverty is defined by a fixed percentage. We could be multi millionaires and a mere millionaire would be classed as living in poverty.

it's often not though choice though sadly, a child does not get a say into whether they are born into a greedy corrupt rich family like the trumps or somebody in the bottom 1%, what we have lost in the last 10 years is ability to empathise with the poorest people in society, it's become normalised through right wing media propaganda to mock them.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

... the poorest people in society, it's become normalised through right wing media propaganda to mock them? You have examples of this, I presume?

 

[Jacob]

I know you are keen to turn everyone to your biased viewpoint Jacob, but I think there is increasingly a backlash against BLM, bbc style woke viewpoints etc. ....

I think there's more of a backlash against the great unwoke. Look what they have given us; Brexit, Johnson, Truss!
Time they woke up, I'm all for it.

 

[Adam W.]

All in all, I think they gave the Queen a good send off.

 

[Keith Cocker]

That's odd, so you're saying that the British had nothing to do with the creation of Pakistan and the partition of India and it was all Jinnah and Nehrus' fault.

"Indian Politicians wished for partition, religious bigotry reinforced it and the British rightly responded to indigenous desire to get out quickly. Like other post colonial messes indigenous people need to accept responsibility for their own actions and destinies.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Yes but the whole scenario was a result of British imperialism which was a disaster for almost all involved and still playing out. Not even particularly profitable for the principle operatives - Imperialism (Hobson book) - Wikipedia.
Interesting quote from the above link:
"A capitalist society could avoid resorting to imperialism through the radical re-distribution of the national economic resources among the society, and so increase the economic-consumption power of every citizen."
Says it all in a nutshell.
Somebody needs tell Liz Truss!

Sorry Jacob but that's not correct. Hindus and Muslims had been beating the merde out of each other for centuries before the British came. They are at it again now.