Push stick vs push pad

[Monkey Mark]

In another topic that is running at the moment it is mentioned that the push pads are not very safe, but I'm not so sure.

I can see that the push sticks make sense. Easy to make to suit your needs and the long length helps to keep your hands well out of the way. However I sometimes feel that the extra distance can make some cuts feel almost disjointed. It can feel as it its harder to control.
The push pads certainly have your hands closer to the blade but I feel like I'm more in control. Much prefer the pads when I'm using the planer.

Not wanting this to get into a "You're wrong" slagging match, but interested to find out what other people think.

 

[yorkshirepudding]

Horses for courses. I use both as I think appropriate. As you say, a pad is better for the planer and, l feel, the router table. It boils down to which you consider safest for the application at the time.

 

[monkeybiter]

Agreed, TS gets push sticks for ripping, nothing for boards or crosscutting.
Planer : pads.
Router table : usually nothing, a push stick if it's fiddly, or better a jig.
Bandsaw : usually nothing, sometimes a scrap offcut to push the last bit onto the blade.

 

[Jelly]

A push stick gets my vote for Table saw, clearing offcuts from RAS, Bandsaw, Spindle Moulder.

When using a planer I tend work with long boards and feed using just my hands,never letting them closer than 6" (ideally a foot) to the cutters, when planing short stock I usually use a pair of push sticks or a push stick and a hand on the outfeed side as soon as the work has advanced far enough. A well maintained planer taking a sensible cut depth needs relatively little force to feed, but good even downward pressure on the tables to maintain the reference of the new surface against the outfeed.

 

[blackrodd]

In this HSE leaflet on the planer, pads are not mentioned, careful use of hands feeding is.
Careful reading even mentions the lead off table being used to reference the flattened work.
The stop block in figure 8, is for a larger timber piece with a lip at the end for a mechanical grip.
The american market is full of stuff like this, They seem to see the pad as a safety device, rendering guards and riving knives as totally unnecessary, I see it as giving people a false sense safety
I served my apprentice ship on this big machinery in a timber mill and joinery shop and continued on and off until
a mate sold his joinery business and machines off march this year.
I don't believe many people were taught their trade clumping around with a pair of these on their Wadkin.
It is very annoying when you're apprentice refuses to listen about safety in the workplace, or get in discussion groups and
watch silly vids made by people using "must have" gadgets in the place of safety.
It rather makes it difficult to pass on the knowledge in the best tradition.
Regards Rodders

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis17.pdf
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

 

[MusicMan]

+1 for what Rodders says.

Keith

 

[custard]

Pads are recommended in the continental European safety literature. Felder, Aigner, and Martin (to name just three that I'm familiar with) all promote the use of push pads with planers. And I'm pretty sure I remember being taught in the UK to use a push block (that rides on the planer bed behind the workpiece) when planing shorter pieces.

But hey, this is a hobbyist and small commercial forum, industry isn't represented here. In your own workshop you follow the safety regime that makes sense to you, they're your fingers and it's your responsibility to take care of them in the best way you see fit.

 

[PAC1]

The poll is meaningless unless you differentiate between what aids should be used on a circular saw and what aids are appropriate on a planer. Then the answer is push stick(s) on a saw and hand over hand method on the planer. Very rarely a push block is appropriate on the planer but neither a push stick or pad should be used as a matter of course on a planer

 

[monkeybiter]

But hey, this is a hobbyist and small commercial forum, industry isn't represented here. In your own workshop you follow the safety regime that makes sense to you, they're your fingers and it's your responsibility to take care of them in the best way you see fit.

This should be made a sticky. =D>

 

[Peter Sefton]

When surface planing the tried and tested English method is hand over hand feeding with the Bridge guard covering the cutter block. The regs recommend using a push block for short pieces with the Bridge guard drawn back allowing the push block to be used over the exposed cutters.

My personal preference is to use my hands with the Bridge guard positioned as close as possible (10mm as a guide) from the timber, I do not like to plane anything under 400mm (16") in length by hand. Some users feel happier using two push blocks all the time with the Bridge guard in place which means lifting the blocks clear of the Bridge guard (always having one in contact with the timber)

If it is deemed good practice by the regs to use a push block with an exposed cutter block on short timber I would suggest it would be seen as safe to use two blocks with the cutter block protected by the Bridge guard.

My opinion is you gain more of a feel for the timber with your hands in contact with it.

We have a similar discussion in the workshop about using latex gloves when staining or polishing and the lack of personal feeling for the job whilst protecting your hands, but if surgeons can perform brain surgery with gloves us woodworkers should be able to cope.

Cheers Peter

 

[blackrodd]

The push block you refer to has a lip at the rear engaging with the timber stock end, which is also quite thick, 3" or 4"
so higher than the cutters, it's pictured in the HSE planer leaflet as you will know, being an instructor.(Others reading this may not)
The pads are being used, in this instance, in the vid and post mentioned, feeding timber over the top of the unguarded saw blade in the vid, and with the unguarded planer cutter block underneath in the text.
Which practise I believe is very dangerous because you're hands should not pass over the cutter block nor over the saw bench believing the pad will save you're pinkies when the timber, for whatever reason, is suddenly missing.
Regards Rodders

 

[Jacob]

I use push sticks as much as possible including over the planer. This takes a bit of getting used to but in the end it gives you more dexterity, not less. I'll still hand hold when I have to, but not if it can be avoided.
I think grippers/pads/push blocks are a very bad idea for the same reasons as Rodders. Gloves are better for improved grip (big timbers etc) but without the delusion that your hands are protected (except against splinters).

 

[PAC1]

The fundamental problem with push pads is that they encourage (require) your hand to get too close to the blade or block in order to complete the operation. Worse still they encourage the user to believe that the hand is magically protected by the push pad and it is safe to ride over or pass immediately adjacent to the sharp spinny bit. It is simply an unnecessary risk.
When I remember I wear some leather gloves whilst machining wood. I usually remember a second after a splinter embeds itself in the pad of my hand.

 

[Jacob]

..... I do not like to plane anything under 400mm (16") in length by hand. Some users feel happier using two push blocks all the time with the Bridge guard in place which means lifting the blocks clear of the Bridge guard (always having one in contact with the timber) .....r

This may seem heretical but with proper push sticks and even with no guards in place you can safely plane lengths less than 16". Much safer than using blocks etc. You might need a bit of practice but the only slight hazard is kick back. This isn't such a risk with a planer and small pieces, as they don't get accelerated and gain momentum like large timbers slung back by a large TS - which can be lethal.
But you must resist the temptation to grab the kicked back piece as it makes a dash for freedom - let it go and keep your fingers well away.