Purveyors of coveted items

[cammy9r]

£140 for a hammer? And the face isn’t even polished!! I think you’re all absolutely barking mad, and they’re sold out? Ffs, Well all I can say is you’ve got far more money than sense. Or, are you hoping that these expensive bits of kit will give you super skills? They won’t. There is absolutely no alternative but to learn the trade from the bottom up, marking out, understanding the timber and working it with sharp tools, The shape of which and the shine of the finish on them really doesn’t matter a jot.
Some of us also seem to be infected with the American affliction of buying rows and rows of tools and just sticking them on the wall and never using them. Fine, if that’s what you want to do but I shall never understand it.
The skill isn’t in the collecting or spending, it’s in the using, I have said it several times on here you just don’t need to spend a fortune on tools. You’re being deceived. Ian

The panel hammers have polished faces. Those are the ones I would be interested in although I think I have most of the hammers I need now. Good to see stubby/compact hammers that are not snap on or martin. The snap on compact is my go to hammer for most dings, it has a nice balance.

 

[SteL]

This thread needs one of those disclaimers ... if you do not keep up your mortgage repayments your house may be repossessed...

I only clicked on that hammer thread because I'd just bought an old hammer for £14. I can only describe the feeling as hammer envy.

I can see why someone would pay that for a hammer to appreciate the craftsmanship. If I used one all day I'd be inclined to make it something I enjoyed holding and looking at. Also, it is something you can eventually hand down I suppose.

 

[Nelsun]

As mentioned earlier, I bought one of their 16oz bench hammers. Do I think it's going to bring me a quick route to beautifully knocking in nails / be better than any similar sized no-name rusty old rubber-grip-falling-off jobber I have no idea where it came from? I hope not. Having received a completely unexpected bonus from work I decided to buy something special I wouldn't normally consider under normal circumstances: a £90 hand made hammer.

I actually consider that "cheap" based solely on our not yet son-in-law being a smithy who has made a lot of his own tools. I have a vague idea how long it takes him to make a hammer head, the handle and time spent marrying the two together. His hourly rate would end up costing way more.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There‘s obviously a lot of truth in what you say Ian but when you buy a tool that has been handmade there is an awful lot of labour involved & that is what costs the money.

I don't think anyone will argue about that, just the assumption by many beginners that these tools are actually needed and will automatically improve their ability. However did Chippendale, Riemenschneider etc. manage without them?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

That is a nice theory but it doesn't work for me. I prefer to buy used, preferably old, tools. I can't just buy those when I need them, I have to buy them when they are available at a sensible price. So I bought most of my tools without any specific project in mind, just in the belief that over time I will get enough use out of them to make their purchase worthwhile.

100%. I've bought good tools for next to nothing on occasion and not used them for a decade.

 

[SammyQ]

That is a nice theory but it doesn't work for me. I prefer to buy used, preferably old, tools. I can't just buy those when I need them, I have to buy them when they are available at a sensible price. So I bought most of my tools without any specific project in mind, just in the belief that over time I will get enough use out of them to make their purchase worthwhile.

Yes, J4F, I agree; I too have bought X, when it's available at a good price, in the knowledge that I emphatically need it for xxxxxx in 4 months time. What I think Ian is getting at is realising, or perhaps rationalising, one's tool usage and 'forward-purchasing' only what you need as opposed to what you have to have as a gloat.

The conundrum with that is, of course, new, low experience, or unimaginative individuals lack the discrimination needed to say "I can do it this way, I don't need to buy Leigh Kneelson, Falsum* or CessPool** gear". Add to that the coll***tor (as Alice L. Frampton used to put it) who then flashes his 'male jewelry'/ego-boost endlessly and 'goody' envy does the rest...sheesh.

Sam

* Opposite of?
** Substitute the F and second s.

 

[custard]

I'm confused.

The evidence seems pretty clear that hobbyists are spending unprecedented sums on woodworking tools.

But I don't see any evidence that hobbyists are actually making all that much? The most depressing thing about this forum is the relatively small number of meaty projects that ever make it through to completion. Sure, there are some, but the sense I get from this forum is that woodworking is essentially becoming a spectator sport!

And I can understand why. I read that golf is in decline chiefly because people simply don't have the time anymore for a round of golf. Yet woodworking is way, way more time hungry than golf. And as Andy T said, once people reach the age when they take up hobby furniture making they tend to already have all the furniture they need or want!

So if less and less actual woodworking is happening why is there such a bonanza in woodworking tools?

 

[pe2dave]

After seeing a reply to a hammer thread today linking to Kinetic Customs it got me thinking what other hand made British tool makers are still going like that? I couldn't buy a hammer at those prices or I'd end up with it inserted somewhere, but they are nice to look at!

I know of Skelton Saws and there's Thomas Flinn that does a variety of tools. Errm... Bill Carter's planes. Am I missing any from this exhaustive list?

I think this is why they are expensive?

 

[Ollie78]

For me it is about finding the sweet spot with tools.
I would not spend over £100 on a hammer but having had £10 hammers before, I have found that a nice Estwing at £40 is about right, it is made very well, balanced nicely and has lasted maybe 10 years so far.
I do like nice tools but try to keep perspective.
For example I love the engineering and quality of Holtey planes and Bridge city tools but will likely never own any ( unless a lottery win occurs ).
For me it is similar to watches. I love the quality of expensive watches from a design and engineering perspective things like Gruebel Forsey and A lange and Sohne, but I actually have a couple of Seiko's.

I will add that if not for people buying them then these super high end products could not exist at all which would make the world a duller place for us all.

Ollie

 

[Just4Fun]

But I don't see any evidence that hobbyists are actually making all that much? The most depressing thing about this forum is the relatively small number of meaty projects that ever make it through to completion. Sure, there are some, but the sense I get from this forum is that woodworking is essentially becoming a spectator sport!

There may be fewer completed project shown on here than you might expect but does that mean fewer projects are being done? Or could it be that few people are prepared to post pictures of their work? For example, I don't post pictures of my projects but I do make things. Sometimes large furniture pieces and sometimes small nick-nacks like boxes. I just don't feel any need to post pictures of my work and I am sure there must be others who think the same way.

 

[Nelsun]

^Couldnt agree more. I can see where Custard is coming from though as it's hard to tell who's made what. I'm a hobbiest but spend all my free time making things. Thanks to furlough I've done our bathroom with new floors, sink cabinet, brushed ledged door (my favourite), brushed wood clad bath and even a river bog roll holder. None of it is overly exciting, so no pics.

I'd add that the furniture I make is done, in part, with some expensive tools (e.g. Domino) and mentioning their use in the past is typically met with disdain despite them being perfectly acceptable in a pro shop. You can point out dovetails done by hand but drop in a mention of having used a Domino (a machine that does have room for more experienced techniques to work with its limitations) and that's that. This isn't directed at Custard at all as he (?) has always been a voice of great encouragement on here.

I do find the whole buying expensive tools to buy skills thing a bit of a drain as, like everything, skills come with learning any tool whether it be a hammer or a panel saw.

 

[pe2dave]

I do find the whole buying expensive tools to buy skills thing a bit of a drain as, like everything, skills come with learning any tool whether it be a hammer or a panel saw.

Sadly true (I speak for myself). If only ..... Be it cameras, woodwork tools or whatever.
Only time spent with a tool a) improves the outcome and b) increases the pleasure.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I think this is why they are expensive?

No one is doubting why they are expensive, just whether they will actually hammer a nail in better.

 

[clogs]

looked at Kinetic custom hammers....truley nice.....but my old leather Estwing fit's my hand just nice.....
I can still just about manage a 14lbs sledge .... 10 blows and I'm done tho.....
dont often use it now I have a 25 ton Hyd press.....hahaha...

worked with an old guy who used a Norris plane, he agreed I could have it for a reasonable price when he retired...
He died suddenly and the plane disapeared.....prob in a skip now....shame.....

I wonder how much good tooling ends up in a skip......?

Having trouble finding decent wooden hammer shafts.....where do u buy ur's from.....?
different styles of hammers and shafts here...guess I'll have to modify something from stock.....

have a good weekend.......sunny here now......18-19 degrees.....

 

[Doug71]

I always buy good quality stuff and don't do gimmicks, I have been in this game long enough to know what works and what doesn't. Because I spend a lot of time in the workshop I don't mind paying a bit more for something if it puts a smile on my face every time I use it. I think those hammers look great and would not have been surprised if the price was higher, I might treat myself at some point.

I know you can make stuff just as nice with cheaper tools, they only do the same job so why bother paying more you may say? Thing is that beautiful bookcase you might be making with them is just shelves to hold books so why not just screw together a few scaffold boards, it would serve the same purpose?

I have no problem with people spending their money on whatever they want if it brings them a bit of happiness.

 

[J-G]

I suggest that 'hammer a nail in' is a very small part of the use of 'Hammers' and the one created by Kinetic Customs would never be used for such a task.

I very seldom use nails but have about 10 hammers - one, an 8oz ball-pane engineers, which I was given the day I started my apprenticeship in 1956 (still in use with original handle). Another is a small interchangable head which I made as an exercise when I built myself an elliptical chuck for the lathe

 

[HamsterJam]

Clifton planes?

 

[SteL]

I think this is why they are expensive?

Heres one from Thomas Flinn...



I think it's great these places still exist and I'm glad people buy from them to help keep them going... Mainly so I can still look at them!

 

[billw]

I don't think anyone will argue about that, just the assumption by many beginners that these tools are actually needed and will automatically improve their ability. However did Chippendale, Riemenschneider etc. manage without them?

I definitely don't think tools will make me a better woodworker by any stretch, but will I smile when I pick up a tool that I know has a lot of craftsmanship in it? Of course. I just noticed @Doug71 has said pretty much the same thing.

 

[billw]

Shane Sketons saws are beautifully crafted and matched in hand made excellence by Bill Carters planes, both highly skilled really nice guys!

Got to say they look beautiful but three hundred sheets for a saw? Ouch! At least I'm going to feel less guilty about buying Veritas ones now.