Puppet hands.

[Mike Needs Help]

Can anyone put me in touch with someone that could produce some puppet hands with a CNC router? I have about 150 pairs to make and they are taking too long by hand so my mind turned to CNC and as I have zero skills in that area I thought it is time I looked for an expert! Each pair would come out of a block 230 x 30 x 18mm.

 

[HOJ]

out of a block 230 x 30 x 18mm.

Seems like a rather long, thin piece of wood.

taking too long by hand

When you say by hand have you a bandsaw/fretsaw?

 

[Mike Needs Help]

It seems long because in each block there is a pair of hands with 5 fingers on each end. The middle 50% is like 2 forearms that go inside the puppet costume.
When I say "by hand" I mean not CNC. I am table routing the palm out and cutting/ shaping the fingers with a bandsaw and a Proxxon carving tool. I've tried lots of methods but I still finish up with plenty of hand sanding which is why I'm thinking about CNC.

 

[ChaiLatte]

... I still finish up with plenty of hand sanding...

Could you try a finger sander or a palm sander?

 

[Mike Needs Help]

Could you try a finger sander or a palm sander?

I've got to hand it to you, that's a brilliant idea!

 

[sploo]

Can anyone put me in touch with someone that could produce some puppet hands with a CNC router? I have about 150 pairs to make and they are taking too long by hand so my mind turned to CNC and as I have zero skills in that area I thought it is time I looked for an expert! Each pair would come out of a block 230 x 30 x 18mm.

Can you post an image of what they look like?

 

[Mike Needs Help]

Here you are: The design of the hand is not set in stone. As long as it looks like a hand and is consistent and well finished all is good.

 

[ChaiLatte]

You would need to think through how it might be CNC'd.

CNC machines come in three basic configuration: three axis, four axis and five axis.

To make them on a three axis machine could be challenging. You would have to cut as much of the back of the hand as possible, turn them over and cut the palm side. Blending the join between the two setups would require some manual work.

A four axis machine would be easier, especially if you did not mind cutting the notch above the wrist afterwards (the rectangular stock gives a place to br gripped). Workholding would be made easier if they could be made from round stock, but you might need to think about if grain orientation matters.

A five axis machine would leave minimal post-machining work to be done.

The cost will increase according to the number of machine axes. Three axis machines are by far the most common.

In order to CNC them on any machine, you need a 3D model of the item. You might get that by 3D scanning an existing one. Once you have the model, it still requires work on the CAM side to translate that model into movements of a machine holding a cutter of a certain size.

None of that is going to be cheap.

Do they have to be wood? You could cast a silicone mould around a pair you have made and then cast the new ones.

Have you considered a (resin) 3D printed item? You would still need the 3D model for that.

 

[Mike Needs Help]

Many thanks for your information. My thought is that the fingers of the hands would be on the ends of the pair block with the centre solid rectangle being in the centre and used for hold down, this rectangle being shaped on my bandsaw after the CNC work. I am thinking that the process might be more efficient if say 10 pairs were cnc'd at a time so that all backs could be done, then turned over for the palms (?)
I've tried resin casting but the flash around the mould join and any air bubbles need to be cleaned off and getting good paint adhesion afterwards involves extra work.
I had a price on 3d printing and wasn't impressed.

 

[sploo]

Yea, that's not a trivial design for CNC. 3D printing should be reasonably practical though.

If the cross section is approx 30 x 18mm then you'd get around 100 (printed upright) on a "standard" sized printer. That would result in 3 print jobs to print 300 (150 pairs).

Depending on how much filament they required it could take £20-£40 of filament.

If you have a 3D model (or would be prepared to send me one of the hands to scan) then I could see how much effort it would be to print them (for filament costs only).

EDIT: I can also resin print, but the scale of the machines is smaller, and the resin is expensive, so the labour (for 150 pairs) would become prohibitive (and expensive at commercial rates).

 

[Mike Needs Help]

Yea, that's not a trivial design for CNC. 3D printing should be reasonably practical though.

If the cross section is approx 30 x 18mm then you'd get around 100 (printed upright) on a "standard" sized printer. That would result in 3 print jobs to print 300 (150 pairs).

Depending on how much filament they required it could take £20-£40 of filament.

If you have a 3D model (or would be prepared to send me one of the hands to scan) then I could see how much effort it would be to print them (for filament costs only).

EDIT: I can also resin print, but the scale of the machines is smaller, and the resin is expensive, so the labour (for 150 pairs) would become prohibitive (and expensive at commercial rates).

The 3d printing sounds like it might be an option. I have a 3d file I can send you. Have you an email address?

 

[Mike Needs Help]

The 3d printing sounds like it might be an option. I have a 3d file I can send you. Have you an email address?

 

[ChaiLatte]

I have a 3d file...

Go here (https://jlc3dp.com/3d-printing-quote) and upload your model. Please tell us the price including shipping it gives you for 150 pairs. The quality will exceed anything a typical home-gamer printer will produce.

If you are 3D printing, individual left and right hands might be cheaper than a pair joined together.

CNC routing them as you describe would need a fixture, so that all of the ten are in a known relationship to each other. It would also need repeatability, so when you turned the stock over to cut the second half, the cut lines up with the first half. That fixture in itself would have a cost. One by one in a chuck, using an oversized piece of stock, you can nearly throw the blank in any old how and be assured the end product will be OK.

 

[Phill05]

They would not be so hard a project to cut on a cnc you could do this as a block of say 5 left 5 right, setting up a two sided job is very easy using locating pins you then turn the board over and cut the reverse side finally you cut the step into it.
Leave only a small amount of cleaning up to do.
PM me If you want to send me a model of what you want i can design a block to work from and do a test cut.

 

[Mike Needs Help]

Go here (https://jlc3dp.com/3d-printing-quote) and upload your model. Please tell us the price including shipping it gives you for 150 pairs. The quality will exceed anything a typical home-gamer printer will produce.

If you are 3D printing, individual left and right hands might be cheaper than a pair joined together.

CNC routing them as you describe would need a fixture, so that all of the ten are in a known relationship to each other. It would also need repeatability, so when you turned the stock over to cut the second half, the cut lines up with the first half. That fixture in itself would have a cost. One by one in a chuck, using an oversized piece of stock, you can nearly throw the blank in any old how and be assured the end product will be OK.

I'm having difficulty uploading file. It might be because I use a Chromebook and the link I uploaded from to the Chromebook didn't load properly (?). I can send you the original link directly but I don't want to publish that on an open forum.

 

[Mike Needs Help]

They would not be so hard a project to cut on a cnc you could do this as a block of say 5 left 5 right, setting up a two sided job is very easy using locating pins you then turn the board over and cut the reverse side finally you cut the step into it.
Leave only a small amount of cleaning up to do.
PM me If you want to send me a model of what you want i can design a block to work from and do a test cut.

Hi Phil, thanks for your interest. I can send you a link to the cnc file but I don't want to publish that on an open forum. Have you an email address I can send it to?

 

[Phill05]

Hi Mike understand that why I said send me a PM or DM whatever they call it Private message or Start a Conversation please.

 

[sploo]

The 3d printing sounds like it might be an option. I have a 3d file I can send you. Have you an email address?

Mike - I've sent you a PM ("conversations"; under the envelope icon at the top right of the screen).

 

[Inspector]

Once upon a time before the CNC machines came into being that sort of work would be done on carving duplicator type machines. There would be one or more spindles, each with it's own router and a pattern to follow. The machine would turn the spindles slowly while advancing, moving the routers up and down as a pattern was traced. Claw and ball legs, gunstocks etc were made in multiples. Some cleanup would be required much as CNC pieces would. It is a low tech method that suits work like your puppet hands. Hunting a used machine down might take some doing, eBay etc may have some. Or you can buy or make a new one. A couple single machines below. Some of the UK members will be able help with sourcing them.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/134320800222?_skw=carving+duplicator&itmmeta=01J8MW76KDHX6A1309GWTAK20K&hash=item1f4624c1de:g:fRwAAOSw9mFWKTUm&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8Mxmj+iGvOveHXEBClPb29gpFDksLIJ8h/SNFXyBfhD5h0qQKKgCNSt85pI3mxn4zsU2vlpexvpmPGbCUGEY29SZioYhKLncxt5gDrwwQRgskIepSs5ycHVF7yFK6iYF9+ZKwuLoiGSvfMoWwRGdyaRVLESc/ndu3Zaf1AX3iGpvPGiZ0hIp+jGOKcx4C6A+l7WAwxIlsgnz8Oqk8AJq/PRKi0ouy1/zzrQLIfUMdS806ndVq9Ff+8TpT0AMkYwhhBcC7oyX/bttCH97dj7GFn6cs9RW4RKVegiwvWhw4o4w2ridooWWnsXFpbkZXtCenA==|tkp:Bk9SR-DpnJzFZA

https://www.wood-carver.com

Pete

 

[Mike Needs Help]

Once upon a time before the CNC machines came into being that sort of work would be done on carving duplicator type machines. There would be one or more spindles, each with it's own router and a pattern to follow. The machine would turn the spindles slowly while advancing, moving the routers up and down as a pattern was traced. Claw and ball legs, gunstocks etc were made in multiples. Some cleanup would be required much as CNC pieces would. It is a low tech method that suits work like your puppet hands. Hunting a used machine down might take some doing, eBay etc may have some. Or you can buy or make a new one. A couple single machines below. Some of the UK members will be able help with sourcing them.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/134320800222?_skw=carving+duplicator&itmmeta=01J8MW76KDHX6A1309GWTAK20K&hash=item1f4624c1de:g:fRwAAOSw9mFWKTUm&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA8Mxmj+iGvOveHXEBClPb29gpFDksLIJ8h/SNFXyBfhD5h0qQKKgCNSt85pI3mxn4zsU2vlpexvpmPGbCUGEY29SZioYhKLncxt5gDrwwQRgskIepSs5ycHVF7yFK6iYF9+ZKwuLoiGSvfMoWwRGdyaRVLESc/ndu3Zaf1AX3iGpvPGiZ0hIp+jGOKcx4C6A+l7WAwxIlsgnz8Oqk8AJq/PRKi0ouy1/zzrQLIfUMdS806ndVq9Ff+8TpT0AMkYwhhBcC7oyX/bttCH97dj7GFn6cs9RW4RKVegiwvWhw4o4w2ridooWWnsXFpbkZXtCenA==|tkp:Bk9SR-DpnJzFZA

https://www.wood-carver.com

Pete

Thanks Pete,
I made one of those for a simpler shape I had to duplicate some years ago but I found there was quite a bit of cleanup and figured these hands would be even worse so I discounted that method.