Martingchapman
Established Member
Would it be vain of me to think this is (maybe in part) due to this thread?
Could not resist so have just ordered one!
Martin.
Could not resist so have just ordered one!
Martin.
Price of the new Veritas Small Bevel-Up Smoothing Plane!!!!
- Thread starter Martingchapman
- Start date
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condeesteso
Established Member
A cynic will question before taking the spoils. It suddenly goes from 210 to 150. So who's taking the hit?
...And for clk's benefit it isn't actually a 'hit', that's just a casual term for a margin reduction.
[and a p.s. edit: is that just Axminster or across all UK retail? I only ask because it helps the cynic understand.]
...And for clk's benefit it isn't actually a 'hit', that's just a casual term for a margin reduction.
[and a p.s. edit: is that just Axminster or across all UK retail? I only ask because it helps the cynic understand.]
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Is there some sort of cunning plot going on? Seems to be a very long thread about sweet F.A. :roll:
As far as I understand it the "hit" has already been taken by those who bought it at the extremely high price. Another hit will be taken by the larger number who buy it at the lower, merely very high, price.
I won't be buying one myself until they come down to less than £30, like (nearly) all my other planes, probably not even then, so they can't hit me!
As far as I understand it the "hit" has already been taken by those who bought it at the extremely high price. Another hit will be taken by the larger number who buy it at the lower, merely very high, price.
I won't be buying one myself until they come down to less than £30, like (nearly) all my other planes, probably not even then, so they can't hit me!
condeesteso
Established Member
Jacob":1vue825j said:
Dear Jacob - you just gave yourself away. If that is as far as you understand it, then you don't. Stick to what you are best at... sharpening???
best wishes as ever, D
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Is it like freemasonry? Some sort of secret society? Not for everybody?condeesteso":28vnd1qf said:
Don't explain if it's against the rules. :lol:
Martin Brown
Established Member
Hi I work for BriMarc which is part of the Axminster group.
Please may I clarify the pricing by ourselves on this plane.
Firstly due a human error it was priced incorrectly. Simply a mistake. I am responsible for this and I apologise.
Secondly that error was corrected when this thread brought it to light, thanks to everyone involved.
Prior to both of these facts, and I have personally double checked this, the special price was arranged in conjunction with Veritas before the thread started, and to make certain of this I confirmed the artwork for Top Tools (the launch publication) was with our printers quite some time before the thread. No conspiracy.
We had always planned a more exciting campaign for this launch. Those who know me on this forum will know that I only tell the truth.
This offer is available through all Veritas outlets. Go to http://www.brimarc.com/stockists to find your nearest Veritas dealer. Please note they will not have stock until the 3rd week of November, I will post an update nearer the time for exact release date.
Please PM me if you have any questions.
Martin
Please may I clarify the pricing by ourselves on this plane.
Firstly due a human error it was priced incorrectly. Simply a mistake. I am responsible for this and I apologise.
Secondly that error was corrected when this thread brought it to light, thanks to everyone involved.
Prior to both of these facts, and I have personally double checked this, the special price was arranged in conjunction with Veritas before the thread started, and to make certain of this I confirmed the artwork for Top Tools (the launch publication) was with our printers quite some time before the thread. No conspiracy.
We had always planned a more exciting campaign for this launch. Those who know me on this forum will know that I only tell the truth.
This offer is available through all Veritas outlets. Go to http://www.brimarc.com/stockists to find your nearest Veritas dealer. Please note they will not have stock until the 3rd week of November, I will post an update nearer the time for exact release date.
Please PM me if you have any questions.
Martin
Martingchapman
Established Member
MartinB
Thanks for the honest update.
Yesterday evening I opened the Axminster flyer and there was the plane offer in print, (including the free sock) so the copy must have gone to the printers long before I started this thread :-(
However, I ordered the plane yesterday around midday and it was delivered today - very well packed with free delivery, so well done Axminster, excellent service.
I am at my desk at the moment so will not have chance to use the plane until the weekend but it looks to be very well engineered and is a pleasure to hold.
And for me that is what it is all about.
I have a Record number 3 plane set up as a smoother, bought second hand for about £30.00, which I spent some time fettling and it works pretty well.
However, the Veritas is a different proposition, it is modern, extremely well designed and put together and did I say, a pleasure to hold?
I am a hobby woodworker, I do not have to justify the cost of the plane by how much monetary profit I will make out of owning and using it, rather by how much personal pleasure I will make out of owning and using it.
No one needs the Veritas plane over a good "normal/cheaper" plane, the Veritas plane may perform marginally better than a properly set up "normal/cheaper" plane but not better by the order of magnitude of the additional cost for the Veritas.
However, I will get immeasurable pleasure out of using the Veritas plane, for me it is like a work of art in an engineering sense, but unlike a work of art it is to be used, not just looked at.
The above is a very personal view point.
I like well engineered, top of the range tools, I enjoy using them, it adds to my enjoyment of my hobby (making sawdust).
I am sure there are many readers of this forum who will agree me, and an equal number who will disagree with me.
Fair enough, every ones entitled...........etc.
MartinC
Thanks for the honest update.
Yesterday evening I opened the Axminster flyer and there was the plane offer in print, (including the free sock) so the copy must have gone to the printers long before I started this thread :-(
However, I ordered the plane yesterday around midday and it was delivered today - very well packed with free delivery, so well done Axminster, excellent service.
I am at my desk at the moment so will not have chance to use the plane until the weekend but it looks to be very well engineered and is a pleasure to hold.
And for me that is what it is all about.
I have a Record number 3 plane set up as a smoother, bought second hand for about £30.00, which I spent some time fettling and it works pretty well.
However, the Veritas is a different proposition, it is modern, extremely well designed and put together and did I say, a pleasure to hold?
I am a hobby woodworker, I do not have to justify the cost of the plane by how much monetary profit I will make out of owning and using it, rather by how much personal pleasure I will make out of owning and using it.
No one needs the Veritas plane over a good "normal/cheaper" plane, the Veritas plane may perform marginally better than a properly set up "normal/cheaper" plane but not better by the order of magnitude of the additional cost for the Veritas.
However, I will get immeasurable pleasure out of using the Veritas plane, for me it is like a work of art in an engineering sense, but unlike a work of art it is to be used, not just looked at.
The above is a very personal view point.
I like well engineered, top of the range tools, I enjoy using them, it adds to my enjoyment of my hobby (making sawdust).
I am sure there are many readers of this forum who will agree me, and an equal number who will disagree with me.
Fair enough, every ones entitled...........etc.
MartinC
condeesteso
Established Member
Martin B - if there was ever any doubt, I do have great regard for Veritas products, and have had for a long time. I particularly respect the Veritas commitment to challenge, question and innovate - values which have increasingly set Veritas apart. My ascetic questioning of pricing does not reflect upon the brand in any way. And I appreciate your clear concern and professionalism.
I will undoubtedly purchase Veritas in the future, and will remain a regular customer of Axminster. But some fundamental questions of a commercial nature raised here still remain and will do so I expect. I'm going now (sigh of relief) - and that means clk will never get from me the definitive explanation of the conflict I previously referred to. No loss there.
Best wishes, Martin.
I will undoubtedly purchase Veritas in the future, and will remain a regular customer of Axminster. But some fundamental questions of a commercial nature raised here still remain and will do so I expect. I'm going now (sigh of relief) - and that means clk will never get from me the definitive explanation of the conflict I previously referred to. No loss there.
Best wishes, Martin.
Vann
Established Member
I didclk230":22cbe962 said:
The answer was a bit vague and I still don't see where you're coming from :? ,Vann":22cbe962 said:
Anyway, it still seems odd that the price was originally set at £299 (a mistake apparently); then £210 (confirmed correct); and now £150 with free plane sock and free shipping. Maybe that's a special offer - possibly to make up for the mistake.
It makes no difference to me. If I wanted one (and I don't, though I keep looking at the BUS...) I'd import direct from Lee Valley at $US179 = ~$NZ229 (shipping extra). If I imported from UK it would cost £150 - VAT = £125 = ~$NZ256 (shipping extra) which, at this super introductory price, is still $27 NZD dearer than Lee Valley. Luckily in New Zealand we don't get hit for excise tax and customs duties on small imports and usually don't pay GST (VAT) either.
But what I think condeesteso is saying about conflict, is that both the importer and the retailer are entitled to add a margin for handling, storage, profit, etc. But when the importer and retailer are the same, then picking up two margins while only storing and handling once, is not necessarily fair.
I don't know what I think on that issue #-o
Cheers, Vann.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Can we have a thread about the price of bog rolls? Might liven things up a bit. :lol:
Vann, i'm always open to some answering questions, what i don't like is someone saying that thier not going to comment anymore then put snide little remarks mentioning my name in posts ,i just hope know one on here design's , makes and sells thier own products as we can't have a conflict of interests.
Vann you also seem to be stocking the fire on a pricing matter that doesn't even affect you as your in NZ .
Jacob , good idea LOL
Vann you also seem to be stocking the fire on a pricing matter that doesn't even affect you as your in NZ .
Jacob , good idea LOL
condeesteso
Established Member
OK, so Oscar wrote "so can you explain very concisely how on earth its a conflict of interests". I refused to for two reasons, the first is that I thought it was obvious (the conflict) and the second was the way your question was phrased gave me good reason to believe you won't listen to a reasoned answer (the phrase 'how on earth').
Anyway, here we go:
First, there are only two price points that matter: the off-the-line 'cost' (just at the moment the box is closed and it's ready to leave the factory door). The second price that matters is the actual price payed by the customer, ex vat (or any local equivalent). The difference between these two will be large, very often a multiple bigger than 5.
The difference is made up of distribution costs (incl duty, insurance etc where applicable) and margins.
Then there is always a supply 'chain', although it can vary in length. That chain divides up the margin, and each part of that chain is trying to take as much of the margin as it can, so they are fighting each other for margin.
A typical chain is manufacturer>distributor>retailer. The manufacturer sells for x (its cost + a margin) to the distributor, and note the distributor is appointed by the manufacturer, normally under contract.
A distributor's job is to distribute the product to as many of the right retailers as it can, at the highest margin it can take. So within the guides set by it's client (the manufacturer) the diistributor is aiming to maximise the volume / margin curve (= max profit). I accept this is a simplification but I'm trying to be concise!
Any single retailer is aiming to take maximum market share at the highest margin it can achieve.
So a retailer is fighting all its competitors (supplied by that distributor of course), and it's fighting the distributor over what total margin is there to be shared out.
That's where file discounts off trade etc come from. That is big retailers using their muscle.
Because the retailer and distributor have opposing trading objectives, where both are owned by one parent there is conflict, and that is so fundamental it cannot ever be designed out. The parent can manage the conflict, but can never delete it - it's simply not possible.
Anyway, here we go:
First, there are only two price points that matter: the off-the-line 'cost' (just at the moment the box is closed and it's ready to leave the factory door). The second price that matters is the actual price payed by the customer, ex vat (or any local equivalent). The difference between these two will be large, very often a multiple bigger than 5.
The difference is made up of distribution costs (incl duty, insurance etc where applicable) and margins.
Then there is always a supply 'chain', although it can vary in length. That chain divides up the margin, and each part of that chain is trying to take as much of the margin as it can, so they are fighting each other for margin.
A typical chain is manufacturer>distributor>retailer. The manufacturer sells for x (its cost + a margin) to the distributor, and note the distributor is appointed by the manufacturer, normally under contract.
A distributor's job is to distribute the product to as many of the right retailers as it can, at the highest margin it can take. So within the guides set by it's client (the manufacturer) the diistributor is aiming to maximise the volume / margin curve (= max profit). I accept this is a simplification but I'm trying to be concise!
Any single retailer is aiming to take maximum market share at the highest margin it can achieve.
So a retailer is fighting all its competitors (supplied by that distributor of course), and it's fighting the distributor over what total margin is there to be shared out.
That's where file discounts off trade etc come from. That is big retailers using their muscle.
Because the retailer and distributor have opposing trading objectives, where both are owned by one parent there is conflict, and that is so fundamental it cannot ever be designed out. The parent can manage the conflict, but can never delete it - it's simply not possible.
i think we'll have to agree to disagree on the conflict of interests , the sole objective of every person/company in the supply chain is to make the maximum they can out of any given product and it really is as simple as that , not really sure you've explained the opposing objectives as they are both trying to maximise profits this is called good business.
Do you disagree with importers or manufacturers selling direct at retail prices if they are not suppling other outlets or is it just when they are distributor and retailer ?
Genuine question what business experience have you got ?
Do you disagree with importers or manufacturers selling direct at retail prices if they are not suppling other outlets or is it just when they are distributor and retailer ?
Genuine question what business experience have you got ?
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I've just been in the Co-op but I forgot to look!clk230":1mvuvcwt said:
I'll go back immediately. I think Wilco's might be slightly dearer but the Co-op have a more interesting range.
You have to watch those eco jumbo packs - sometimes the rolls are smaller! Cunning. :roll:
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