Preserving posts (wooden posts, that is, not forum posts!)

[dickm]

I need to fence round our garden to keep out the demon deer, and have acquired enough posts very cheaply from a local guy with a Woodmizer (gonna keep his phone number!). Problem is, they are untreated. The standard farm treatment is apparently 2 gal of red diesel to one of old engine oil, which they all swear by. However......
What do people reckon to whatever is the modern version of creosote? I used to soak batches of stakes in creosote which worked fairly well, but haven't tried the new stuff.
Any other recommendations?

 

[tomasg]

i read that the electricticy poles are boiled in oil
ive also seen cans tacked on the endgrain (dont know if this helps though )
if your hammering down the posts in id recommend making a metal pot
i cracked a good lot of posts fencing in my dogs
i will definatly make one the next time

 

[Esox Lucius]

Regarding Electricity poles...a small word of warning.

If you are ever offered one with no depth markings (3 metre or 10 foot planting depth) visable and you see a metal disc mark COBRA leave well alone...they are cyanide injected to prevent rot.

Also i dont believe i have come across any boiled in oil..they are either pressure creasote treated or tanalised.

I started out in the East Midlands Electricity Board area as an overhead linesman and they were the types we had.

Just be wary of the COBRA poles though...can be nasty especially if you cut some up for sticks in your fire.

Regards

Mark

 

[OPJ]

Assuming these are softwood posts then, pressure-treating (tanalising) is probably the best way to go. Ideally, you'll also want a good 2ft of each post in the ground, depending on the height and style of your fence.

With that though, pressure-treated softwood is only expected to last ten-to-fifteen years, seeing that it's being sunk below ground level. Rot will also attack the wood in the first four-to-six inches above ground level.

...For that reason, you may want to consider using MetPosts, where only the metal spike is driven in to the ground... Some people like them; others don't. :duno: But again, it may depend on your application and the panels or rails you are intending to use.

 

[Oryxdesign]

You could consider treating the end grain with epoxy resin.

 

[Esox Lucius]

Regarding OPJ comment on metaposts.

If you use metaposts please please please check for underground utility services.

The times i have been to repair underground cables damaged by them is scarey.

Also your household liability insurance may not cover you if you go through a cable.

132kv oil filled cable damage could land you with a bill of £1m..so be wary and check what is in the ground before you knock those things in.

Regards

Mark

 

[dickm]

Thanks for the comments all. Was wondering if there might be someone who could pressure treat the posts for me - need to enquire around the local forestry folk to see if there's anyone.

I fear that 2 feet into the ground will be difficult - we have about 3" of soil then broken rock. I've already deer-fenced my veg plot, and that needed the Kango for most of the holes . The fencing is standard wire stock fencing, and my plan is to use two separate one-metre fences separated by about 1.5 metres; it's roe deer that are the problem, and it appears they can either jump high or wide, but not both. Don't want to go for the 2m+ fencing that's used for forestry round here, as it would be a bit of an eyesore all round the garden.

Not a fan of Metposts, I'm afraid - spent my youth banging mis-shapen home-produced stakes straight in for farm fencing, so it's a matter of pride!

Don't talk to me about underground cables, Mark! I learned that one the hard way when a contractor doing some drainage in our last garden severed our mains feed - that was expensive enough. And a bit nerve-racking, watching the linesmen working on it live in a trench with water in the bottom.

 

[mike/builder landscaper]

we sometimes wrap the tanalised post in pallet wrap before concreting in. this keeps the post dry and stops the concrete eating into the post and rotting it. i have taped up 3x2 rails for trellis in my garden and taken them out 10 years later and they were still fine.

 

[mbartlett99]

30-06 with a Smith and Bender scope - cheaper than wood, wamer than putting them in and you get dinner into the bargain.

 

[dickm]

30-06 with a Smith and Bender scope - cheaper than wood, wamer than putting them in and you get dinner into the bargain.

:lol:

YES - very tempted!

 

[Shultzy]

One tip I've gleaned is to drill a 1" hole in the bottom about 6" deep, soak the bottom of the timber in old oil, and then fill hole with old oil and hammer in a plug.

 

[Alf]

In days of yore I believe it was common practice to char the bottom of fence posts. The charred wood presumably neither being prone to rot and providing a layer between the soil and the wood that could rot. Probably not advisable with treated posts, but fwiw.

 

[Eric The Viking]

The alternative to creosote is, er, creosote.

It's still available from farm supplies, officially sold only to trade customers who know its dangers*. Anyway, you** can get it if you try, in large (50L+) quantities.

Assuming your 'fencing contractor' has some, a 50l tin (I used the old cans from damp proofing chemical, obtained via skip-diving usually), about 1/3-1/2 full, and stand the post for a few days, with some pebbles in the bottom so that it can reach the end-grain easily. You can also paint with 'Synthaprufe' or similar for the below-ground bit.

Nothing else works as well for long-term fencing preservation, although I appreciate the engine oil/Diesel thing is probably cheaper. There are some serious nasties in old engine oil though: I wouldn't want it near the veg patch.

IIRC, my grandpa's mill had a contract to supply telegraph poles for a while. They had a long creosote tank, about 2ft tall and 1ft wide, in which they soaked poles and fenceposts. As a child I was forbidden to go anywhere near it on pain of a good spanking!

Odd aside: we creosoted our back fencing recently. Fearing comeback, I asked all the neighbours first if they minded. Several commented how much they liked the smell!

Appreciate though that, in this weather, you're more likely to get deer invasions, so it's probably urgent right now. The venison route might be self-financing: have you got any good game butchers locally?

Cheers,

E.

*Yup, we can't be trusted with it, thanks to an EU directive. There's no hard evidence I could find that it does cause cancer, only suspicions. Anyway, if it's so dreadful, why was it sprayed on desert sand (in the Sahara in the 1980s, IIRC) to stimulate plant growth?

** for suitably-trained, commercial-use-only, values of 'you', naturally.

 

[dickm]

Interesting, Eric - I'd assumed that creosote had been banished for everyone. Will ask our local garage, as they supply my fencing staples and the like. Useful tip about the pebbles; hadn't thought of that angle, though as the stakes are ready pointed, the penetration will probably be OK anyway. Not particularly concerned about leaching nasties, as the veg plot is already done and the rest of the half acre is only ornamental. I'm probably going to have a plastic half barrel left over from making a snow plough for the garden tractor, so that would make an ideal container.
Sadly, there's not a clear field of fire, or the deer population would definitely be reduced :lol: .

 

[Sgian Dubh]

In days of yore I believe it was common practice to char the bottom of fence posts. The charred wood presumably neither being prone to rot and providing a layer between the soil and the wood that could rot. Probably not advisable with treated posts, but fwiw.

Yes Alf, charring the bottom end of fence posts is an old and effective practice. Charred wood is less prone to rot and therefore more durable. This was, in a sense, the forerunner of the controlled high heat treatment of wood to impart desirable characteristics undertaken is some countries. The Finns and North Americans have done considerable research on this and they have developed special kilns for the process. Softwoods, for instance are treated at about 240ºC for roughly five hours to increase durability in exposed locations, and is used for building work. Two downsides exist because of the treatment, and there are more, and these are that the wood becomes more brittle, and it still isn't considered 'durable' in ground contact situations. Slainte.

 

[wills-mill]

In days of yore I believe it was common practice to char the bottom of fence posts. The charred wood presumably neither being prone to rot and providing a layer between the soil and the wood that could rot. Probably not advisable with treated posts, but fwiw.

Yes Alf, charring the bottom end of fence posts is an old and effective practice. Charred wood is less prone to rot and therefore more durable. This was, in a sense, the forerunner of the controlled high heat treatment of wood to impart desirable characteristics undertaken is some countries. The Finns and North Americans have done considerable research on this and they have developed special kilns for the process. Softwoods, for instance are treated at about 240ºC for roughly five hours to increase durability in exposed locations, and is used for building work. Two downsides exist because of the treatment, and there are more, and these are that the wood becomes more brittle, and it still isn't considered 'durable' in ground contact situations. Slainte.

Indeed- 'Thermowood' is apparently going to revolutionise outdoor timber work. In the meantime, charring or a soaking in a bit of slop will have to do. Out of interest, do you know what timber species you've got from your Wood Mizer man? If you've got local Larch then that'll need far less treatment (if any) compared to Pine and Spruce....

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Out of interest, do you know what timber species you've got from your Wood Mizer man? If you've got local Larch then that'll need far less treatment (if any) compared to Pine and Spruce....

wills-mill, that question wasn't meant to be directed at me was it? Slainte.

 

[dickm]

Out of interest, do you know what timber species you've got from your Wood Mizer man? If you've got local Larch then that'll need far less treatment (if any) compared to Pine and Spruce....

wills-mill, that question wasn't meant to be directed at me was it? Slainte.

Directed at me, I think! Unfortunately, they were almost certainly Norway Spruce. They're under some corrugated iron covered with snow at the moment, so can't check to be absolutely sure.

I've got half a dozen or so big larch that have outgrown their site (and they are shading the PV panels!) so when I've got them down will probably be talking to the WoodMizer again. Would love to be able to justify a WM for myself, but.......