Power tools spoil the fun?

[Anonymous]

Well, I was cutting some mortices and the thought occured to me (mentioned in MikeW's post) that I was not actually enjoying it.

Well, one might say "so what?".

I don't do woodwork for a living (thankfully) and my furniture making is simply for fun. Yes fun.

I was cutting the mortises on my hollow chisel mortiser as they are biggish (2"*4"*2") and I didn't really fancy chopping them out by hand. I did clean them up by hand and cut the 5 degree face for the wedges with a mortise chisel and that was fun.

Do people still take time to develop skills or is it simply a machine set-up exercise? Hand-cut DTs are the most satisfying skill I posess, but routing them leaves me cold.

I am not talking about table saws and the like (who enjoys ripping long boards by hand?)


So the following questions spring to mind (I cannot really answer them for myself),

1. Have cheap and plentiful power tools taken away the fun (and/or skill) in hobbiest woodworking? or the opposite?

2. Are people looking for a finished item for their satisfaction or enjoying the actual process of the build?

3. What satisfaction is there to be gained from a power tool set-up type of exercise (or do people tend to combine power and hand tools? - if so, in what proportion?)?

 

[Scrit]

If you train as a woodworker, Tony, you are still taught how to do things by hand before you are let loose on machinery or power tools. Unless you understand the mechanics of the process it would seem to me to be impossible to progress satisfactorily with all these "powered shortcuts", although it would explain some of the common misconceptions that there are amongst the DIY brigades in particular - such as orbital sanders being better than hand sanding to name just one. That isn't a criticism of ayone here, just a general viewpoint.

Scrit

 

[gidon]

Tony
Woodworking for most people has to be a combination of power tools and hand tools. The proportion of each is either a personal preference or a matter of the time available.
I don't think it matters how you reach the end result - if the end result pleases you (or your client).
Merry Christmas,
Gidon

 

[scooby]

I have to agree to some extent.

I'm not a woodworker like the majority of the members of this board. I'm a joiner and most of the work I do requires it to be done as fast as possible (but to the best of my ability) so as to earn a decent wage. So, to this extent, I have the usual range of powertools. But having said, I was taught during my apprenticeship to master hand tools.

I agree with what you said regarding rip sawing, I despise it. But the main thing I really enjoy that has become somewhat power tool orientated is hanging doors. I have power planer but I enjoy using my old Stanley 5 1/2, it was my grandad's and since I've set up with Hock iron and cap iron it is a joy to use. I also enjoy the skill of morticing hinges and locks/latches by hand, using a router to do these these tasks seems foreign to me. I wouldn't have a clue how to set up the jigs for these things. It's nowhere on the same scale as the fine cabinet making a lot of the people here do but keeping at least some of my job hand tool orientated makes me appreciate the techniques the tutors at college and the joiners on site taught me.

 

[luthier49]

I have been enjoying woodworking now for 30 years. My first workshop a 6`x 8` garden shed served me well for many years as I learnt the skills I posess now. I did`nt have any power tools then, ( well just an electric drill ), and every thing I made was achieved with hand tools only. I still have some furniture I made then where all the shaped components were cut using a bowsaw. I converted all my timbers by hand with a rip saw, and planed and thicknessed them by hand. Being just a hobby, time taken to complete a project was`nt important. I still have the same shed which now houses my woodturning lathe. My main workshop now is another 8` x 16` shed which is well endowed with plenty of machinery. I must say I enjoyed my woodwork more when I done things the long way. Machines just speed up production and can give a greater level of accuracy. I don`t make much furniture now as I`m more into building musical instruments, guitars, mandolins etc. I have sort of come full circle woodworking wise as this kind of woodworking does`nt require much machine work so I`m really enjoying myself again. If your machining a piece of wood and you are`nt enjoying it, just revert back to doing it by hand, the machines will still be there if you need them.

 

[houtslager]

hmmmmmmm its that old question rearing its ugly head again :twisted:
as a restorer from 25 years ago I was a hand tool user, when I had enough of doing repairs. I wanted to make "heirloom pieces" of furniture for the future, I had to learn how to use machines JUST TO MAKE A PROFIT.

Now I am building a new shop and trying to re build my house. I have no 3 phase power yet, - I have had to revert back to my hand tools to do IT ALL.

Yes I enjoyed the process, but I am suffering for that pleasure. Too much planing by hand has left me with " tennis elbow / arm" :?
I have as the quack sys - tendonitus in the right shoulder , :? :shock:
and I am LEFT HANDED.

So, to be truthful - I'll revert to using machinery again ASAP when the power is on-line and do hand work where it it seen and necessary.

 

[paulm]

Although I do other stuff as well these days, I have done a lot of woodturning in the past, and while doing that I really enjoyed the whole of the process as well as having a finished article to be proud of (well sometimes!).

For me a lot of the satisfaction is in taking what might otherwise look like an unpromising piece of firewood, recognise the potential it has, enjoy the turning and the feel and the sounds of the the gouges and tools cutting the timber, through to the finished design and sanding, polishing etc.

Although this involves some machinery such as chainsaw and bandsaw and lathe of course, it probably has much more hand involvement than a lot of other types of machine based woodworking, and I find that very therapeutic and satisfying.

It also helps that, if starting with a blank I've prepared previously, I can produce a finished article in 30 minutes to a few hours depending on what I'm making and that fits the kind of time I have available at the moment, where I couldn't sustain the free time to undertake a longer cabinetmaking type of project over a few weeks.

Most rewarding part for me is probably splitting the large logs down their length on the bandsaw and seeing the figuring and colouring revealed in what looks like a dull lump of unpromising timber.

Merry Christmas all

Cheers, Paul. :ho2 ccasion5:

 

[Roger]

1. Have cheap and plentiful power tools taken away the fun (and/or skill) in hobbiest woodworking? or the opposite?

2. Are people looking for a finished item for their satisfaction or enjoying the actual process of the build?

3. What satisfaction is there to be gained from a power tool set-up type of exercise (or do people tend to combine power and hand tools? - if so, in what proportion?

Far from it! It's a profession for me, but the use of Power and Hand tools is just as satisfying when done properly, producing the desired result. Time is the ever present 'Ghost' looking over your shoulder these days and the use of Power tools is a must to earn a good living. I use Power and Hand tools where appropriate for the most efficient use of my time (and enjoyment if possible), in no particular proportion.

I look for the finished result plus an efficient process and enjoy both. The setup and use of Power tools is critical, as is knowing the theory and the process of every joint and step in the making. Knowing you have done that well is crucial and also enjoyable.

I learned and was taught that by time served Carpenters and Cabinet Makers and unless you have that teaching (or knowledge) - as Scrit mentioned - I don't think you can really enjoy everything you should by producing a fine piece of work at the end.

Now back to the armchair, the Mince Pies and the fizzy stuff :ho2

A VERY Happy Christmas :deer

 

[WoodStoat]

Agreed on the power/hand balance. To say that only hand tools are 'real' tools and the others are somehow vulgar or otherwise undesirable per se is self-defeatingly wrong-headed. There are few things more satisfying than hand-cutting some lovely walnut dovetails; on the other hand there is little more depressing than to realise that's all you've done in half a day when you could have got out the Leigh and fired up the router and made £100 instead of £20.

If people want just to use hand tools because that's what gives them pleasure, then more power to their elbows. But if you are going to reject them just because they're modern, does that mean you'd prefer your dentistry done with a treadle drill and no anaesthetic? Or that you'd reject penicillin on grounds of vulgarity ("If leeches were good enough for my great-grandad, they're good enough for me")?

Merry Christmas to all, with or without electricity, and may Santa have brought you all the Lie-Nielsens and Makitas your hearts desire.

 

[Vormulac]

I am only a hobbyist and a relatively inexperienced one at that, but I think that power tools have a very valuable place in woodworking for hobbyists (as well as being pretty vital as already commented for productivity reasons for those who work wood for a living). I can think of nothing more likely to put off a prospective hobbyist woodworker than having to do every little thing by hand. Also, not having a vast amount of money to throw at my hobby, I don't have stocks of teak and so-on to 'practise' on, I have to use cheaper sheet materials, and these are better worked with power tools (the thought of spending a weekend fettling a plane just to start using it on a piece of chipboard makes me shudder).
I wish I had the skills exhibited by those fortunate enough to have served an apprenticeship, but I don't and probably never will have, so I expect the majority of my woodworking will always be done with power tools, with handraulic tools used where appropriate - I enjoy the use of both equally (and I do enjoy the setting up of machines as part of the overall process).

Very Merry Christmas all!

V.

 

[mailee]

Yep, power tools here too. If it hadn't been for power tools I would never have taken up woodworking in the first place. (Lazy bugger me) I do use hand tools of course but only when I can't use a power tool. I agree you must know the mechanics behind a joint and how and where to use them but the enjoyable part to me is the finished item whether it is achieved with hand or power. :wink:

 

[Philly]

Tony
Interesting questions!
Power tools aimed at the DIY market are amazingly cheap, much cheaper than buying a decent set of hand tools to do the same work. And they have the "speed" advantage. I think you know what the answer is-we live in a "want it now" society. Have it now, pay later. And it is the same with hobbies. Don't bother learning skills and, shudder, "practising" :lol: Just buy this miracle tool/jig/gizmo. We are all to blame for a lot of these items-I mean, who else buys them but us?? :lol:
As to the second question-I think it is a it of both. The finished item is (should) be the reason for getting your hands dirty. And being able to say "I made that!". But, as hobbiests, a large part of doing it is for the pleasure. I think most of us have used the "if I buy these tools I can make one for half the price" type excuses to the Missus, and the reality of it is that you can't :lol: A lot of furniture available in shops is cheaper than you could ever hope to buy the raw materials for.
Question three? I think there is pleasure to be had from using accurate machine set-ups and jigs to make mutliple parts accurately. And there is a lot of joy to be had ffrom this kind of work. It all depends on what turns you on?
The finished item IS what it's all about. But the journey, whether hand, power or your own combination of both is also very important. And, if you do this for fun-have FUN!
Cheers
Philly
Who is pleased to see so many fellow saddo's here on Christmas day! :lol: :lol:

 

[paulm]

Tony
Philly
Who is pleased to see so many fellow saddo's here on Christmas day! :lol: :lol:

It's either that or sit with the MIL and watch Christmas films ! Would be in the workshop if I was a bit more sober :shock: :lol:

 

[Philly]

Tony
Philly
Who is pleased to see so many fellow saddo's here on Christmas day! :lol: :lol:

It's either that or sit with the MIL and watch Christmas films ! Would be in the workshop if I was a bit more sober :shock: :lol:

DITTO! :lol:
Philly the Saddo :lol:

 

[Scrit]

Power tools spoil the fun?

Not at all. Never tried belt sander drag racing? :lol:

 

[Scrit]

Power tools aimed at the DIY market are amazingly cheap, much cheaper than buying a decent set of hand tools to do the same work. And they have the "speed" advantage.

Well, trade rated tools are generally a lot more expensive :x but even so I still use them

- we live in a "want it now" society. Have it now, pay later.

You sure you're not one of my customers?

The finished item IS what it's all about. But the journey, whether hand, power or your own combination of both is also very important.

If you're doing it as a hobby, then yes. Doing it for a living means that I would really like to use hand tools a lot more but can't - economic pressures see to that. So whether you're an "end justifies the means" merchant or a technique over volume masochist so long as you enjoy it should it really matter?

 

[Philly]

Scrit
As I said, power tools have the advantage of speed-and when you have to make a living at wood that makes ALL the difference.
If you are doing it for fun then whatever way makes it fun for you, be it hand tools, power tools or doing it naked. Although I don't recommend that last one....... :wink: :lol:
Hope you took the day off today, too, Scrit?? :wink:
Merry Christmas
Philly

 

[tiler99]

Scrit
doing it naked. Although I don't recommend that last one....... :wink: :lol:

Philly

Is this the voice of experience?? :wink:

 

[MikeW]

Good topic, Tony.

I think for myself, the journey and the result are too intrinsically intertwined to dissect them. For me, tools are but a means to an end--but often the end isn't even a finished piece or thing that has use beyond the making.

I think it is the skillsets which change, not necessarily that one method requires skill and the other does not. For instance, my hat is off to anyone who can use most router-based dovetail jigs available. I cannot without trials and tribulations.

My predisposition is to use tools which achieve goals. Often, it requires increasing my handtool skills via practice. Sometimes it was using powertools in order to meet budgetary contraints--and knowing how to apply tools of either sort also takes a skill.

Like Tony, I don't overly enjoy ripping by hand--but that depends on the wood. As long as I am not using something like Bubninga [which I used a lot] I rip by hand. But not for any failed purist reasons. Rather because I both enjoy it and in secondary woods it is actually quite quick.

I do rather enjoy most all other aspects of joinery and shaping wood by hand. While I couldn't always afford this luxury when production was a must, there were still aspects when hand work was either chosen "just because," or because it was faster.

I'm not convinced having solid hand skills is necessary for good and efficient work, I think that for myself it creates a confidence and assurance in myself as a person which applies to areas even outside of woodworking. I also think having, understanding and using a good basic handtool kit can be a means of extending what can be accomplished without a multitude of fancy bits for a router or shaper. Once again, I think this applies more to the hobbyist. While I made the replacement windowsills for our home by hand, replicating the design of the originals, when faced with a job doing the same, I quickly ordered a custom 6" diameter carbide-tipped shaper cutter.

Sorry for the rambling post. Does make me think about this, though. So thanks, Tony!

Take care, Mike

 

[engineer one]

i think that the major problem with cheap power tools are that they lead people to think they can do anything. Rather like the modern sales pitch that our beloved government has bought into in relation to computers.

when you look at the adverts the all imply that a complete novice can build a house within 1 day by buying one or other multi tool.

because almost no body get school training in woodworking so unless interested, you tend not to find out more about what you are trying to do.

the biggest advantage of some power tools is that they give you a better chance to get straight edges and even cross cut to a proper length.

i think the advantage for the diy user is that it allows you to combine a number of skills and also adds speed. almost nobody can afford to hand cut timber often enough to get proper skill.

however planing is another matter. to go back to the old saw (sorry) that is the best excuse to buy at least one of the top 3 manufacturers,
LV/LN and CLifton because they give you the chance to plane well quite quickly, whereas fettling older planes, is another move away from learning about woodworking.

i do believe that the joy of learning to use proper hand tools is worth expense and the time costs. however for a pro, power tools certainly in britain are the only way to make money.

in america however i believe that it is possible to make a living making furniture solely using hand tools, but only for a few special craftsmen.

but what i do think is that unless you know what you are intending to make
it matters not what tools you use it ain't gonna be too good.

so back to the learning curve :lol:

paul :wink: