Potential sites for new mega-solar farms

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Thanks - I can see why there is a trade off in allowing the use of agricultural land but wouldn’t see that his decision means he’s ignoring all scientific advice.

I've often wondered how long it will be before the 'stop oil' brigade start targetting wind turbines. I only make this point because the average turbine gearbox contains 700l of lubricating oil which needs changing every 9 to 18 months.

Not an altogether 'green' solution when you factor this in - is it ?

I think the concern of most of the ‘stop oil’ brigade is the burning of oil (their view being that plans to find alternatives are not being given the right priority) as opposed to oil being used as a lubricant.
 
Blades are made of a none recyclable material….and nobody mentions it!
Inevitably, there's quite a lot of innovation going on around reuse and recycling of blades. Which doesn't happen without anyone mentioning the issue.
 
Thanks - I can see why there is a trade off in allowing the use of agricultural land but wouldn’t see that his decision means he’s ignoring all scientific advice.

...
Suggest you take a peek at Appendix B. There's a lot of science there.

https://infrastructure.planninginsp...ination Authority's recommendation report.pdf

No, Ed Moribund was simply playing at who had the BSD. Might as well scrap the Planning Inspectorate if he's going to ignore their recommendations every time. To massage his over-inflated ego.
 
I've often wondered how long it will be before the 'stop oil' brigade start targetting wind turbines. I only make this point because the average turbine gearbox contains 700l of lubricating oil which needs changing every 9 to 18 months.

Not an altogether 'green' solution when you factor this in - is it ?
I am assuming that oil is not consumed though and will be recycled back into the oil refineries to be re-processed.
 
Good point Deema. I appreciate the validity of it, but, looking at my three childrens' experiences of trying to get on the housing ladder - in three very different parts of Britain - we have to do SOMETHING to make housing available. Solar/insulation is terrific, but the reality is, not everyone can afford to buy "new" houses with "eco" energy savings. There is always a premium slapped on them - as you implied above. We still have a massive, read, huge, percentage of older, not-easily-transformed housing and realistically, a significant proportion of new buyers are plumping for these older, more difficult properties, because that's all they can afford.
The UK has a housing stock of 28,5m units.

In some areas, possibly more generally prosperous, folk pay a premium for older properties having character and charm. Modern "boxes" are of less interest.

20% of UK housing units (5.8m) were built before 2019 when property was typically built with solid walls. This is the principle barrier to decent insulation - windows, roof spaces and wall cavities are relatively easy to deal with.

The high price of property arises as there are simply not enough of them, particularly in areas of high demand.

Typical new build costs of a standard spec are £1500-2000 sq m - making the construction cost of a (say) 100sq m 3 bed house £150-200k. The premium over this reflects high levels of local demand and limited supply due to planning or other constraints.

There are "fixes" - they all involve obvious weaknesses - what balance is right is up for grabs:
  • remove planning restrictions to allow building where people want to live
  • increase government grants for property improvements reducing energy consumption
  • subsidise companies to relocate to deprived areas with lower house prices
 
https://infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/wp-content/ipc/uploads/projects/EN010127/EN010127-001608-240216 - MPSP - The Examination Authority's recommendation report.pdf

No, Ed Moribund was simply playing at who had the BSD. Might as well scrap the Planning Inspectorate if he's going to ignore their recommendations every time. To massage his over-inflated ego.
I have not followed this story closely so may be missing your point, but the conclusion of that Planning Inspectorate report is:

"We conclude overall that, on the basis of these considerations, there is a convincing case for development consent to be granted."

So who was ignoring their recommendation?
 
You cannot keep on burying 8000 turbine blades a year because they are not going to decompose that easily so they need to both find a suitable alternative material for these blades and a use for the current old blades rather than just burying them. I wonder if they are taking the cost of blade replacement into account when giving the cost per unit of electricity generated.
Agreed. We need to find a way to recycle them or use a different material. I’ve read recently how useful Hemp is and how under used. Apparently Henry Ford wanted to use hemp in car body panels?

On solar, this is interesting.

https://www.cpre.org.uk/news/rooftops-can-provide-over-half-our-solar-energy-targets-report-shows/
 
Suggest you take a peek at Appendix B. There's a lot of science there.

https://infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/wp-content/ipc/uploads/projects/EN010127/EN010127-001608-240216 - MPSP - The Examination Authority's recommendation report.pdf

No, Ed Moribund was simply playing at who had the BSD. Might as well scrap the Planning Inspectorate if he's going to ignore their recommendations every time. To massage his over-inflated ego.
Thanks, yes there is but that doesn’t mean he’s ignored it all. I have only skimmed it and under a good proportion of the headings the conclusion doesn’t seem to be saying “don’t do this”.

Interestingly the decision had been put off until after the election which suggests it perhaps wasn’t going to be popular with the locals (3,000 had signed a petition saying it should not go ahead) but as reported by the BBC:

“However the government said any harm caused by the solar farm would be outweighed by the benefits of it providing enough clean energy to power some 92,000 homes.”
 
I have not followed this story closely so may be missing your point, but the conclusion of that Planning Inspectorate report is:

"We conclude overall that, on the basis of these considerations, there is a convincing case for development consent to be granted."

So who was ignoring their recommendation?
My bad. I just grabbed the first report I found to show the amount of science involved.

This is the recommendation from the Inspectorate for the Sunnica farm

Screenshot 2024-07-15 at 13.47.31.png
 
Thanks, yes there is but that doesn’t mean he’s ignored it all. I have only skimmed it and under a good proportion of the headings the conclusion doesn’t seem to be saying “don’t do this”.

Interestingly the decision had been put off until after the election which suggests it perhaps wasn’t going to be popular with the locals (3,000 had signed a petition saying it should not go ahead) but as reported by the BBC:

“However the government said any harm caused by the solar farm would be outweighed by the benefits of it providing enough clean energy to power some 92,000 homes.”
No, the postponement was nothing to do with objections but simply many 'Matters of State' are automatically put on hold when a General Election is announced. Should point out that that link is for the Lincolnshire site. This is the link for Sunnica where the Inspectorate recommended witholding consent.

https://infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/wp-content/ipc/uploads/projects/EN010106/EN010106-005902-Sunnica-ExA-Recommendation-Report-28-June-2023-FINAL-with Errata sheet.pdf

BSD rules !
 
I am assuming that oil is not consumed though and will be recycled back into the oil refineries to be re-processed.
Only when they catch fire ;)

Screenshot 2024-07-15 at 13.59.10.png

Incidentally, last time I spoke to a 'pen' tester who'd reviewed the cyber-security of some of these farms, he was rather scathing about their weakness in this area.
 
As usual, policies dictated by ignoramuses and implemented by non-technical (generally) Civil Servants.

How do I know this? My oldest fried studied Classics at Cambridge, got 1st and worked for Dpt of Business & Trade or it's previous names all his working life!

No Science studied after O level and no Economy qualifications at all!!

He despised most ministers of any party as essentially grandstanding to their rabid adherents.

Phil
 
My bad. I just grabbed the first report I found to show the amount of science involved.

This is the recommendation from the Inspectorate for the Sunnica farm
I've only read the conclusions of that, but the reasons for recommending declining permission were to do with visual impact. So again although this shows an elected politician overriding a civil service recommendation (made to a previous administration with different views) this does not show Milliband ignoring scientific evidence as opposed to differing on the importance of that sort of cultural opinion.
 
..... So again although this shows an elected politician overriding a civil service recommendation (made to a previous administration with different views) ......
Are you saying that the Inspectorate are not apolitical and will produce a result to suit the Govt in power ?

We also have Moribund doing his BSD trick and I quote him...

On Saturday night, he defended the move, saying: “Some of these cases had been held up for months before I arrived in the department. They were put on my desk on Monday, and I’ve made a decision in three days

BSD ...QED
 
As usual, policies dictated by ignoramuses and implemented by non-technical (generally) Civil Servants.

How do I know this? My oldest fried studied Classics at Cambridge, got 1st and worked for Dpt of Business & Trade or it's previous names all his working life!

No Science studied after O level and no Economy qualifications at all!!

He despised most ministers of any party as essentially grandstanding to their rabid adherents.

Phil
Brilliant, I thought my niece in law was the only one in the civil loonies. She has a degree in fine arts and her partner a doctorate in history, they work in project management on H2! They go on site review the progress make recommendations and resolve problems….,neither with the slightest clue about what they are doing or any technical knowledge!!
 
There are 2 things going on here. One is a sensible and useful discussiion about solar and wind generation. The other is pointless and poisonous attack on a Government Minister by someone who thinks it is clever to mangle his name and try to associate him with a dictator. A new theme is appearing - 'knocking' the Civil Service.

Can we keep the things separate and continue the sensible bit? The other bit is totally unproductive.

I have 3 thoughts on the main theme:

First, for sustainability and energy security we have to use less energy or make more, so improvements at either end of the process are valuable.

Second, a real example. I've just come back from holiday in a very wet, windy and cold part of the UK. We rented a bungalow for a week, and it was a recent build. ASHP, underfloor heatimg, solar, very detailed programming of temperatures and times in each room. Very confortable and looks to me to be very efficient. It shows what you can achieve. If you look at the profits made by the big housebuilders their margins are huge, dwarfing the marginal cost of proper insulation and heating systems*. The price of a house isn't set by the cost of building it, it is set by the money that buyers and potential buyers can get hold of. There is a shortage, highest bidder rules. The day we have one more house for sale than buysres wanting it then we have real competition, until then the industry bleeds as much money as it can from buyers. I read somewhere that the cost of fitting ashp and good insulation at the outset is less than half that of retrofitting, so let's make housebuilders do things properly. The current regulations are lax, well behind the best that can be achieved. The £5k it might add to the build cost of a new house is irrelevant. OK, getting new homes right only helps with a few tens of thousands of homes at the outset and we still have millions of inefficient homes that will need retrofitting, but over 10, 20, 30 years the percentage of housing stock that is built to be efficientbecomes significant. You have to start somewhere.

(*Berkley Group as an example, 2023 profit of £600m before tax, delivered 4000 new homes. Baratt bigger but less profitable per property and at a diferent price point, 800 m before tax 17,000 homes. They claim a 20% gross margin. So with pre tax profit ranging from £50k to £150k per home, there is scope for some decent regulation)

Third, I read today that Thames Water is winding up its solar power subsidiary (being as Thames is in a financial mess). I can see the business reason, but the idea behind the subsidiary seemed brilliant: float solar panels on large reservoirs. A few innovations like that and we can make progress.

Whether it's solar, wind, or housbuilding regulation there won't be consensus from everyone, but "something must be done". That needs decisive leadership from people doing what they belive is in the best interests of the country even if some disagree. That's what leaders are for.
 

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