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Alexam":3dcjtv7i said:
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My daughter asked me to make a box suitable for the house and car keys of their family of four. They requested a lift off lid rather than one that was hinged, so this is what I came up with. using a large key as the lifting handle. The box has been flock loned and finished with Tru-Oil. Positioned on the hall table to save that 'messy pile of keys.
Malcolm

So, now anybody who burgles your daughter's house knows where to find the keys to the car of his (or her) choice. Since losing my car after a burglary, all of my keys are well hidden every time I am out of the house or in bed.
 
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It about time I posted something on here. Quilted Mahogany back and sides steel string guitar. I have no idea what the burl is on the peghead, it’s one of a few I have that I like the look of.

Oil finish, couple more coats required, then fit the bridge, machine heads and we should be good to go by the weekend.
 

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It started as a exercise in jointing wood which seemed to go ok, so I bought some cheap pine to develop it into a trial table. I found a good used morticer so invested in that (with guidance from a member of the forum) - I love the thing! Some fettling of the tenons after cutting on the bandsaw and they all seemed to fit as well as I could do...
_MG_6023.jpg

and then, on glueing up, I failed to get the joints square. #-o
_MG_6021.jpg

The two legs to the right of this photo aren't at right angles to the top, they're about a degree out and you can see a gap where the bottom of the apron (is supposed to) join the leg.
Still, my first table, lots learned including the importance of getting things in the right place before glueing.
 

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It's a sign of real craftsmanship Chris when you can objectively analyse your work, recognise shortcomings, and plan how to do better next time.

All that's missing on your table aprons is one single step, scribing the tenon shoulders. Personally I prefer to do that job with a shoulder plane, but I know some fine craftsmen who prefer a chisel.

Apart from that it looks like you've done a cracking job, the top appears to be well jointed and the overhangs are nicely proportioned. You've taken the trouble to get some reasonably clean boards. You've set the aprons in from the legs which is a smart move (personally I'd aim for 3mm in order to maximise the tenon strength, which might be a bit less than you've used, but so what!), the aprons are well proportioned to the rest of the table being neither too narrow nor too deep. All in all you should be well pleased with yourself.
 
Thank you, Custard!
I've been searching online but can't get this clear - when you say 'scribing the tenon shoulders', you seem to mean more than just marking out. I did that with a pencil line, and cut to the line. But when it came to tidying up the inaccuracies I'd made with the band saw to get the shoulder as near flat as I could, I used a chisel and found it tricky, particularly as along the length the shoulders were only 4mm wide and hard to register the chisel on. I made such a mess of one that I had to trim the shoulder again with the bandsaw.
Is that whole process scribing, or just marking the line? Or am I completely misunderstanding?!
 
That's a very nicely proportioned table =D>. Getting the proportions right is the hardest bit, imho
 
Chris152":2ha2t5bc said:
I've been searching online but can't get this clear - when you say 'scribing the tenon shoulders', you seem to mean more than just marking out.

Hello Chris. Yes, scribing a tenon shoulder is different to marking out. Maybe a practical example will help illustrate the difference.

This is a cabinet door in Curly Cherry that I'm currently working on. The panels have had an initial coat of finish prior to assembly (so there'll be no bare wood visible if the panels subsequently shrink) but the frame is unfinished.

Cabinet-Door.jpg


Let's think about the process of making this door. There are three main objectives,

1. The door must be completely flat, with no twist or wind.
2. It must be square.
3. All the joints must close up perfectly, with no gaps anywhere.

In furniture making it really helps to separate out the objectives, dealing with each one individually. So I start by checking for twist, either with winding sticks or by laying the door on a known flat surface and pressing down on each of the four corners whilst seeing if there's any rocking. This is the critical test, and it's really down to how accurately the tenon cheeks were cut. If the door fails this test there's very little I can do and it might mean making the door again from scratch. But if this test is passed then I'm home safe, because any shortcomings in the second two tests can be dealt with.

Next I test for square by cramping up and measuring the diagonals. I'll adjust the cramps in order to achieve square, but at this stage I completely ignore if any gaps open up around one of two of the joints. All I want at this stage is square.

Once the cramps are delivering square then I critically examine all around each joint. On High Street furniture there will often be a minute gap here or there. But, in order to sell at a premium, furniture needs to be better than that, each joint must be flawless.

So, I turn to the problem joint and establish with feeler gauges the size of the gap. Let's say it's 0.2mm, I'd be a bit embarrassed if it were as large as that, but even a gap of a thou will be visible as a dark line once the finish is applied. Having established the gap is 0.2mm I'll take a feeler gauge of either 0.2mm or maybe 0.25mm. I'll press the feeler gauge tight against the stile and using a knife I'll scribe a line completely around the offending rail. I should add that I've previously checked the tenons with a square even before assembly, so I know there's no missed splinters of wood holding the joint apart, but if I suspected that might be the case then I'd check that first before scribing.

The door is then disassembled and, using a sharp and properly set up shoulder plane, with the plane's side pressed tightly against the tenon, I'll plane down precisely to that knifed in scribe line. I'll clean up any fuzz with a chisel and I might even undercut the shoulders very, very slightly.

The door is then cramped up again for another test assembly, and if the remedial work has been carried out correctly this time there'll be a tick against all three objectives, so I can move on to the glue-up.

On rectilinear furniture making like this cabinet it's all fairly straightforward. But let's look at a more demanding situation. This is a chair that's typical of the stuff I make,

Walnut-Chair-1.jpg


Walnut-Chair-2.jpg


Here you have multiple mortice and tenon joints that are coming together at angles, compound angles, or are jointing curved components. There's no way you can accurately make an item like this completely from the plan. You will almost certainly have to fettle some joints individually to achieve a perfect fit. Furthermore, if you look at the back bars on this chair, you have multiple tenoned components that all need to close up at the same time. In situations like these scribing tenon shoulders is the only way I know that you can achieve first class work.

When I look at how cabinet making is dealt with on-line or in magazines these days I sometimes despair. Techniques like scribing shoulders are pretty much essential, yet they hardly ever feature. Maybe they're considered too boring in an age that's looking for fast results, maybe the people making the YouTube videos don't really know what they're talking about (I suspect many of them have never made a stick of worthwhile furniture in their lives, but hey ho, they're internet stars so who cares!), or maybe magazines edit down their articles to fit within a two or three page limit so stuff like this gets scant attention? Who knows.

Incidentally, I'm not saying my methods are the only way, or even the best way. But techniques like scribing tenon shoulders have worked for me across literally thousands of joints, and my customers keep buying my stuff, so I guess I'm doing something right.

Good luck!
 

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Thanks Custard - everything I've seen and even read seemed to work on the basis that you mark up, cut and fit together. The example you give is incredibly helpful - I completely missed much of that process, and it shows. That might be in part because I was so excited to actually get to the glueing up stage, but it's also because I didn't know that sequence and the final fitting process. As for non-rectilinear work, I'll save that for another day... :shock:

I'm tempted to dismantle the table and have another go at the legs and apron, but I also want to try some detailing in the surface so think I might just leave it as is and use it to experiment on. And for the next table, I'm going to try a harder wood, maybe ash. And I'll be scribing as you describe, and taking more time to ensure everything's where it should be. I've not used a feeler gauge since I was a kid and we used to have to set the tappets on our cars. The more I learn about working with wood, the more I realise precision is key.

Thanks again.
 
morturn":39aryoir said:


It about time I posted something on here. Quilted Mahogany back and sides steel string guitar. I have no idea what the burl is on the peghead, it’s one of a few I have that I like the look of.

Oil finish, couple more coats required, then fit the bridge, machine heads and we should be good to go by the weekend.

The back of that guitar is beautiful.

More photos when it's finished please! :)
 
Finally made some more progress one the bed! Only thing left now is to find a nice piece of spalted beech or sycamore or something with a live edge to cap the head and foot boards.

IMG_20170724_174412.jpg


IMG_20170825_202357.jpg


Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
 
custard":1nubz4e8 said:
Chris152":1nubz4e8 said:
I've been searching online but can't get this clear - when you say 'scribing the tenon shoulders', you seem to mean more than just marking out.

Hello Chris. Yes, scribing a tenon shoulder is different to marking out. Maybe a practical example will help illustrate the difference.

This is a cabinet door in Curly Cherry that I'm currently working on. The panels have had an initial coat of finish prior to assembly (so there'll be no bare wood visible if the panels subsequently shrink) but the frame is unfinished.



Let's think about the process of making this door. There are three main objectives,

1. The door must be completely flat, with no twist or wind.
2. It must be square.
3. All the joints must close up perfectly, with no gaps anywhere.

In furniture making it really helps to separate out the objectives, dealing with each one individually. So I start by checking for twist, either with winding sticks or by laying the door on a known flat surface and pressing down on each of the four corners whilst seeing if there's any rocking. This is the critical test, and it's really down to how accurately the tenon cheeks were cut. If the door fails this test there's very little I can do and it might mean making the door again from scratch. But if this test is passed then I'm home safe, because any shortcomings in the second two tests can be dealt with.

Next I test for square by cramping up and measuring the diagonals. I'll adjust the cramps in order to achieve square, but at this stage I completely ignore if any gaps open up around one of two of the joints. All I want at this stage is square.

Once the cramps are delivering square then I critically examine all around each joint. On High Street furniture there will often be a minute gap here or there. But, in order to sell at a premium, furniture needs to be better than that, each joint must be flawless.

So, I turn to the problem joint and establish with feeler gauges the size of the gap. Let's say it's 0.2mm, I'd be a bit embarrassed if it were as large as that, but even a gap of a thou will be visible as a dark line once the finish is applied. Having established the gap is 0.2mm I'll take a feeler gauge of either 0.2mm or maybe 0.25mm. I'll press the feeler gauge tight against the stile and using a knife I'll scribe a line completely around the offending rail. I should add that I've previously checked the tenons with a square even before assembly, so I know there's no missed splinters of wood holding the joint apart, but if I suspected that might be the case then I'd check that first before scribing.

The door is then disassembled and, using a sharp and properly set up shoulder plane, with the plane's side pressed tightly against the tenon, I'll plane down precisely to that knifed in scribe line. I'll clean up any fuzz with a chisel and I might even undercut the shoulders very, very slightly.

The door is then cramped up again for another test assembly, and if the remedial work has been carried out correctly this time there'll be a tick against all three objectives, so I can move on to the glue-up.

On rectilinear furniture making like this cabinet it's all fairly straightforward. But let's look at a more demanding situation. This is a chair that's typical of the stuff I make,





Here you have multiple mortice and tenon joints that are coming together at angles, compound angles, or are jointing curved components. There's no way you can accurately make an item like this completely from the plan. You will almost certainly have to fettle some joints individually to achieve a perfect fit. Furthermore, if you look at the back bars on this chair, you have multiple tenoned components that all need to close up at the same time. In situations like these scribing tenon shoulders is the only way I know that you can achieve first class work.

When I look at how cabinet making is dealt with on-line or in magazines these days I sometimes despair. Techniques like scribing shoulders are pretty much essential, yet they hardly ever feature. Maybe they're considered too boring in an age that's looking for fast results, maybe the people making the YouTube videos don't really know what they're talking about (I suspect many of them have never made a stick of worthwhile furniture in their lives, but hey ho, they're internet stars so who cares!), or maybe magazines edit down their articles to fit within a two or three page limit so stuff like this gets scant attention? Who knows.

Incidentally, I'm not saying my methods are the only way, or even the best way. But techniques like scribing tenon shoulders have worked for me across literally thousands of joints, and my customers keep buying my stuff, so I guess I'm doing something right.

Good luck!
Thank you Custard for taking the time to write this very detailed and enlightening post. I've absorbed countless hours of woodwork instruction from a wide variety of sources on YouTube and the likes and this is the first time I've heard of scribing Tenon shoulders. Of course, it makes absolute sense but I'm surprised I've not heard it sooner. It is details like this that separate the wheat from the chaff.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
 
For an extra £3.98 of CLS and the offcuts from the main ramp, we got this, too! (small jump/ landing ramp.)
_MG_6025.jpg
 

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Brian18741
Bed looks good so far, what kind of joints did you use ?
 
The bulk of the head and foot boards are tongue and groove, with a couple mortise and tenons for the styles on the headboard. The legs are glued with a couple of pocket holes to hold it together while the glue dried. I was just going to glue them but didn't have clamps long enough. Not sure yet how I'll attach the beach top, think it will be just glue again with a couple of hidden dowels underneath for alignment while it dries. Never made anything this big so lots of learning!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
 
Brian18741":1d4596cp said:
The bulk of the head and foot boards are tongue and groove, with a couple mortise and tenons for the styles on the headboard. The legs are glued with a couple of pocket holes to hold it together while the glue dried. I was just going to glue them but didn't have clamps long enough. Not sure yet how I'll attach the beach top, think it will be just glue again with a couple of hidden dowels underneath for alignment while it dries. Never made anything this big so lots of learning!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
The bed looks great and I really like the colour. Smart job ;)

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 
Thanks. Think the colour will look great with a nice piece of spalted beech or something on top. Should be a good contrast.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
 
Well impressed with the bed Brian, that'll look smart with the contrast of the beech. I made an oak one for a bedroom in the rental we're doing up at the moment but I think I'll steal that idea for the other room.
What set up did you use for the slats, they look quite deep from what I can see on the photo?
 
Hi folks,

You might remember me from such posts as "How do I sharpen a chisel" or "I've never built anything before, I'm going to build a house" :wink: - I've taken what you all said with regard to the cabinet and errm, ignored you a bit. That's not to say I didn't take on board what you were all saying, I certainly appreciated all the advice, but stubborn mule is stubborn. I've learned an awful lot in doing this and that was my primary goal. There are mistakes, but I know what they are and why they exist and what I need to do next time. I expanded my tools with a Japanese crosscut saw - yes I know it was recommended I didn't, but it's so nice to use. Now I have to start making holders for the few tools I do have. Three of the sides are perfect one, the right, I cocked up my measurement ever so slightly and it's not quite square - It's already starting to annoy me :p Still not complete some sanding and finishing work to do.

Anyway, pictures are what you want,

cab1.jpg


I learned that kerf is important when cutting dados, even when it's one of those Japanese saws.
cab3.jpg


These look better from the other room, with the door closed..
cab2.jpg


I didn't want any screws showing at all for the holders, so I used dowels to hold them in place. At the moment they aren't glued because I need to do more shaping. It's slow with just sandpaper.

cab4.jpg


Don't be too cruel...
 
that's a good start @scaredycat, remember that if there are no mistakes, you never learn anything, we live in a society obssessed with perfectionism and never making mistakes, but that's not how you master anything, that tool cabinet looks good to me so far, don't be too hard on yourself.
 
ScaredyCat":1ku005l7 said:
Hi folks,

You might remember me from such posts as "How do I sharpen a chisel" or "I've never built anything before, I'm going to build a house" :wink: - I've taken what you all said with regard to the cabinet and errm, ignored you a bit. That's not to say I didn't take on board what you were all saying, I certainly appreciated all the advice, but stubborn mule is stubborn. I've learned an awful lot in doing this and that was my primary goal. There are mistakes, but I know what they are and why they exist and what I need to do next time. I expanded my tools with a Japanese crosscut saw - yes I know it was recommended I didn't, but it's so nice to use. Now I have to start making holders for the few tools I do have. Three of the sides are perfect one, the right, I cocked up my measurement ever so slightly and it's not quite square - It's already starting to annoy me :p Still not complete some sanding and finishing work to do.

Anyway, pictures are what you want,

cab1.jpg


I learned that kerf is important when cutting dados, even when it's one of those Japanese saws.
cab3.jpg


These look better from the other room, with the door closed..
cab2.jpg


I didn't want any screws showing at all for the holders, so I used dowels to hold them in place. At the moment they aren't glued because I need to do more shaping. It's slow with just sandpaper.

cab4.jpg


Don't be too cruel...
Very nice, now fill it!

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