Pocket knjfe

[novocaine]

Completely agree, until a bit of card slips down the side of the blade, at which point you don't check the blade because "hay it's self retracting" and put a delightful slice down the side of your leg (3 out of the 5 reported incidents involving a knife for a year at that store).

found the ones we had, a bit smaller, but doesn't fit a standard blade (which isn't all that useful really)

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products ... lsrc=aw.ds

 

[Sideways]

Artie had the right of it.
The Spyderco UKPK or UK Penknife is a superb tool. Excellent ergonomics. Top quality S30V steel. A version of their Caly(pso)3 that was designed to be UK legal, it has a sub 3 inch non locking blade. Single handed opener with a notch joint mechanism that makes the blade click into place and takes a decent force to "un-click" it. The result is MUCH more secure than swiss army knives and the like.
Buy a UKPK and one of two things are likely: you catch the bug buy more good knives OR it does everything that you need so well that it ends the search for the ideal pocket knife. It cured me - can you tell I'm a fan

Just a note - looking it up, I see that the blade and handle materials have changed since I got mine. The price has been made more accessible and the knife seems to have become popular. Read up on it if the PM steel is important to you. Spyderco don't do bad knives so it's a good bet either way.

 

[El Barto]

The Svord Peasant Knife is one of the best I've used and is one of my favourites. Legal to carry, locks, looks cool and has a great blade. And about £15.

https://www.heinnie.com/svord-peasant-mini

Another banger is the Higonokami, similar to the Svord in many respects but Japanese. This is what I carry on me all the time because it's 7mm thick.

https://www.heinnie.com/nagao-higonokami-mini-black

 

[Tasky]

Opens with a flick of the hand which is gravity assisted so does that mean it's outright illegal to even own?

Many knives technically fall into that category, simply by virtue of being loosely assembled and heavily oiled, though. Most of mine can be stripped down for cleaning, and if you don't tighten the shoulder bolts fully they will swing open with a flick or a drop.

It's a legal grey area, the blade is sub 3" and folding, but because the handle closes up and stops the blade being fully folded it falls fouls of J. Mcowan's decision in Harris v DPP 1993

Technically, so would any knife where one's fingers obstruct the blade from closing. My Leatherman Squirt is like that.

However:
https://swarb.co.uk/harris-v-director-o ... -sep-1992/
http://www.hrcr.org/safrica/arrested_ri ... ubPros.htm

The argument seems to centre around 'immediate' folding (in order to make it a folding pocketknife), versus a process required before it can be folded (as found with the lock knives in this and similar cases), to establish a difference between a legal pocket-folder and illegal lock-knife.
By this alone, the Micra would be immediately folding.

The argument arises from the generally-accepted assertion that a lockknife is obviously a more effective stabbing weapon if it is locked. Non-locking folding knives present a danger to the user and are thus less likely to be used as stabbing weapons for that reason.
In light of this, while the Micra's handle may prevent the blade from fully closing immediately, in order to use it as a weapon the offender would have to hold the knife... and in such an event the blade folding would hit his fingers before it could touch the handle anyway, thus upholding the risk mentioned above that mitigates the risk of it being used as a weapon.
Either way, it does not lock like those knives exhibited in the above cases and, from 'fully open', the blade can still freely fold enough to render it an ineffective option for a weapon.

 

[El Barto]

Back on topic to knife recommendations, this is also a fantastic knife with a lovely "Scandi" blade:

https://www.heinnie.com/cold-steel-finn-wolf-29948

If you can REALLY push the boat out, the Benchmade Griptilian is excellent: https://www.heinnie.com/cold-steel-finn-wolf-29948

 

[Rorschach]

Technically, so would any knife where one's fingers obstruct the blade from closing. My Leatherman Squirt is like that.

However:
https://swarb.co.uk/harris-v-director-o ... -sep-1992/
http://www.hrcr.org/safrica/arrested_ri ... ubPros.htm

The argument seems to centre around 'immediate' folding (in order to make it a folding pocketknife), versus a process required before it can be folded (as found with the lock knives in this and similar cases), to establish a difference between a legal pocket-folder and illegal lock-knife.
By this alone, the Micra would be immediately folding.

The argument arises from the generally-accepted assertion that a lockknife is obviously a more effective stabbing weapon if it is locked. Non-locking folding knives present a danger to the user and are thus less likely to be used as stabbing weapons for that reason.
In light of this, while the Micra's handle may prevent the blade from fully closing immediately, in order to use it as a weapon the offender would have to hold the knife... and in such an event the blade folding would hit his fingers before it could touch the handle anyway, thus upholding the risk mentioned above that mitigates the risk of it being used as a weapon.
Either way, it does not lock like those knives exhibited in the above cases and, from 'fully open', the blade can still freely fold enough to render it an ineffective option for a weapon.

The squirt can fold fully closed (but take your finger off, like any folding knife), the micra will not injure you if it folds and it only folds part way. The micra could therefore be construed as a more effective stabbing weapon with no danger to the user, like a locking knife. If you own a micra you will see how this is possible. Like I said though, a legal grey area and untested in court. Not a risk I want to take though when other options are available like the squirt which are 100% legal.

 

[artie]

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[Tasky]

The micra could therefore be construed as a more effective stabbing weapon with no danger to the user, like a locking knife. If you own a micra you will see how this is possible.

Incidentally, I went round a friend's house for tea last night and, knowing he had one, forced him to dig it out. We then spent a little time test-stabbing various things......

Yes, technically, it would statistically be more effective than a full-folding knife, while somewhat less effective than any locking blade.... but in reality the blade folds well enough and turns the knife in your hand so much that it's pretty f*****g useless for stabbing anything!!

 

[Rorschach]

Yes, technically, it would statistically be more effective than a full-folding knife, while somewhat less effective than any locking blade.... but in reality the blade folds well enough and turns the knife in your hand so much that it's pretty f*****g useless for stabbing anything!!

Yes I totally agree, but the law doesn't specify how useful something is at stabbing. You can carry a 3" non locking blade perfectly legally with a super strong spring that effectively locks it open and be a very effective stabbing weapon. You cannot carry a knife that is maybe 15mm long, if it has a locking blade even if it would be totally useless for stabbing someone. It silly, but it's the law.
The same issue can be taken with the victorinox swiss card, it had a very small fixed blade in it, it's short, thin and has a tiny handle that would make it useless for stabbing, however the blade is fixed and as such is not EDC legal. Once again, silly, but it's the law.

 

[Tasky]

Yes I totally agree, but the law doesn't specify how useful something is at stabbing.

I'd argue the reasonings for banning lock knives establish the precedent for exactly that. Otherwise I'd be done for carrying an improvised cosh every time I bought a battered sausage from the chippy. Speaking of which, the Micra is about as good at stabbing things as a saveloy...

Once again, silly, but it's the law.

I also expect the human judge to exercise some level of common flippin' sense, to mitigate the silliness as much as possible.

 

[Rorschach]

Yes I totally agree, but the law doesn't specify how useful something is at stabbing.

I'd argue the reasonings for banning lock knives establish the precedent for exactly that. Otherwise I'd be done for carrying an improvised cosh every time I bought a battered sausage from the chippy. Speaking of which, the Micra is about as good at stabbing things as a saveloy...

Yes you might, but if that were the case, the law would have specified sizes of lock knife that were legal/illegal. They don't. But anyway, you make my point perfectly, it's an argument, yet to be tested in law.

Once again, silly, but it's the law.

I also expect the human judge to exercise some level of common flippin' sense, to mitigate the silliness as much as possible.[/quote]

I would hope so also, but once again you make my point, untested in law and relying on common sense, never sensible.
We KNOW that a swiss army type knife is legal EDC, it is written in law and precedent has been set, we KNOW a locking knife is not legal EDC, it is written in law, precedent has been set. The micra is a special case, has not been tested in court, no precedent is set therefore we do not KNOW if it is legal EDC, which was my original point

 

[Tasky]

Yes you might, but if that were the case, the law would have specified sizes of lock knife that were legal/illegal. They don't.

It doesn't have to. It specifies that locks are illegal and explains why. By that same explanation, the Micra does not have a lock, so does not fall under the same ban. Length is a separate element.

The micra is a special case, has not been tested in court, no precedent is set therefore we do not KNOW if it is legal EDC, which was my original point

Well without any definitive proof, general assumption, potential precedents, or anything else to even suggest that it might be illegal, there's no reason to go curtailing your lifestyle.

 

[Rorschach]

Well without any definitive proof, general assumption, potential precedents, or anything else to even suggest that it might be illegal, there's no reason to go curtailing your lifestyle.

Since it fails the test set out in Harris vs DPP, it is much more likely to be illegal than legal and since there are plenty other definitely legal options out there I think I will play it safe

 

[dynax]

i can see no logical reason to carry any sort of knife outside of a work or hobby related situation, you go to work, get tooled up etc, when finished, tools packed away, what reason would there be to still have a knife in your pocket or on your belt, i have knives for different jobs, and various knives for my hobbies, which are all legal, but i don't carry them when i don't need them, even just going to a shop or something at work, i wouldn't carry one, i would take it out of my pocket or case if on a belt and leave it with the rest of my tools,

 

[Tasky]

Since it fails the test set out in Harris vs DPP

In your interpretation of the 'test' only, and certainly not as I understand it.

"In the Crown Court appeal of Harris v. DPP (1992) and the Court of Appeal case of R. v Deegan (1998) the ruling that 'folding' was intended to mean 'non-locking' was upheld".
In the Harris case notes, it says the knife "had a pointed blade and that it locked in the fully open position".
The Micra does not lock in the fully open position.
Moreover, the blade is not "locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device", so it's not a lock knife. Indeed, some types of knife use pressure on the blade itself rather than the above and they'e not (yet) considered locking blades. Moreover, the Micra's blade is not in any way held in place by its closed handle, as it can move out of place quite a way.

i can see no logical reason to carry any sort of knife outside of a work or hobby related situation

On my keys I have a teeny tiny multitool, with knife blade, pliers, crosshead screwdriver, wire cutters, wire strippers, file, bottle opener, flathead screwdriver, and scissors... and that's the order in which they get used most frequently.
These are just completely random, ad-hoc situations that have arisen while I have been out and about, from opening a box or a letter, to fixing someone's reading glasses, to installing some cabling, to working on a car, working in an office, going shopping, building a PC round a friend's house..... I've only had the thing a couple of years, as well.

 

[Rorschach]

In your interpretation of the 'test' only, and certainly not as I understand it.

"In the Crown Court appeal of Harris v. DPP (1992) and the Court of Appeal case of R. v Deegan (1998) the ruling that 'folding' was intended to mean 'non-locking' was upheld".
In the Harris case notes, it says the knife "had a pointed blade and that it locked in the fully open position".
The Micra does not lock in the fully open position.
Moreover, the blade is not "locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device", so it's not a lock knife. Indeed, some types of knife use pressure on the blade itself rather than the above and they'e not (yet) considered locking blades. Moreover, the Micra's blade is not in any way held in place by its closed handle, as it can move out of place quite a way.

Ok if you want to quote bits from the Harris judgement, how about this bit?

"In my judgment, the right approach to the matter is this. To be a folding pocketknife the knife has to be readily and indeed immediately foldable at all times, simply by the folding process."

Does the micra pass this test? No it doesn't, the blade will not fold unless you first open the handle fully and then you can fold the blade. That is neither ready nor immediate, nor a simple folding process.

 

[Tasky]

Ok if you want to quote bits from the Harris judgement

You started that... I'm just working with what you give me.

Does the micra pass this test?

Yup.

No it doesn't, the blade will not fold unless you first open the handle fully and then you can fold the blade.

1/. It does not 'lock in the fully open position', which is the whole point being debated in those court cases.
2/. Yes it still folds, and far enough that it's fecking useless for stabbing anything, which is why lock knives are seperately designated.

That is neither ready nor immediate, nor a simple folding process.

Readily:
without hesitation or reluctance; willingly.
without delay or difficulty; easily.

Immediately:
at once; instantly.
without any intervening time or space.

It definitely does both of those. Just push lightly on the back of the blade!!


"Appearing for Mr Harris, Mr McGuire accepted that it is obviously a more effective stabbing weapon if it is locked, for the very plain reason that without a lock there is a dangerous tendency, dangerous, that is to say, from the point of view of the wielder, to fold on to the wielder's hand".
Which the Micra and many similar models do.

"For the Director of Public Prosecutions in each case, Mr McGuinness answers the question from the court as to the thinking behind the statute by saying this. When the knife is locked it becomes in effect a fixed blade knife and the intention of the statute is to prevent the carrying of such a knife."
The Micra does not lock and, even though the handle may prevent it from fully closing, it folds far enough that no reasonable person would consider it a fixed blade.

You also forget that Trading Standards do a LOT of checking on, and working closely with, companies that sell things like knives, both underage test purchasing, and other common legal issues - If they were selling these things as EDC legal when they weren't, you can bet your left testicle TS would have slammed the living feck out of them for false advertising.

 

[Seiken]

i can see no logical reason to carry any sort of knife outside of a work or hobby related situation,

I was given my first pocket knife as a boy and apart from when going to school have always carried one (I'm now over 60), I cannot count the number of times I have used it in unforeseen circumstances, anything from cutting wrappings to prising a nail out of a tyre.

 

[Eric The Viking]

i can see no logical reason to carry any sort of knife outside of a work or hobby related situation,

I was given my first pocket knife as a boy and apart from when going to school have always carried one (I'm now over 60), I cannot count the number of times I have used it in unforeseen circumstances, anything from cutting wrappings to prising a nail out of a tyre.

Quite.

And the other thing is that I have a pouch/sheath for my Victorinox, which, depending on task, is often on my belt. Same with my Leatherman PST*, which has a 4" blade (and has to be opened to fold the blade - it is held straight as long as the handle is tightly closed).

So what happens when I forget it's there and nip down to the shops? Am I technically in breach of the law or not?

And never mind the 5" bladed sheath knife I've had ever since I was in the school scout troop aged twelve. You were supposed to carry that on Scout parade, incidentally, and to keep it suitably fettled. That one I almost never use, only because the other two are better in the modern world, but if I still went backpacking, etc., it would be jolly useful still.

E.

*currently trying to replace that sheath having lost it but the principle remains.

 

[Rorschach]

So what happens when I forget it's there and nip down to the shops? Am I technically in breach of the law or not?

Depends on the circumstances. If you are at home, and go out to the shops, yes you are in breach of the law. If you are out working and go to the shops on the way home or during lunch, perfectly legal.