Plunge saw - battery or corded?

[TRITON]

With 2020 hindsight, 1400 rails are a pain. They are a little short for crosscutting an 8x4 sheet. You really want a little less than a saws length of overhang at each end for a clean run on and off the sheet without the saw wobbling. 1900 rail is dearer but I wish I'd bought that rather than the 1400.

Joined 2x1400 lengths gives you about 4" overhang each end. I suppose dependent on the depth you're cutting which for the most part will be 18mm, and given where the center of the blade sits, or the effective cutting point depth for 18mm just back from it pretty much at the back edge of the blade, you're going to have the full base sitting on the rail. It isnt like its a circular saw where you need to place the front of the blade into the end of the board.
So I would have thought a 2.8m rail on a 2.4m board is ample. Same applies for the width. its 1.4m against 1.2m.
Im pretty sure rails lengths were designed purely on cutting 8x4 sheets which is why each length is 1.4m

If youre really stuck though, currently theres a continuous 3m festool rail for sale on ebay for 200 quid.

 

[Spectric]

I need to cut through veneer sometimes so I am going to buy the mafell ( I'm aiming for the cordless). These have the score function so you never get chipped edges.

Again a good feature on the Makita, it has that scoring feature but apparently it is better to use it by drawing the saw towards you, ie opposite direction to a cut according to @JobandKnock . If you have the space then a 3 metre guide rail will solve all the alignment issues but it would also need careful storage.

Having two batteries on the cordless saws does make them heavier and more bulky, there is over a Kg difference with the Makita cordless being heavier.

 

[Sideways]

Joined 2x1400 lengths gives you about 4" overhang each end. I suppose dependent on the depth you're cutting which for the most part will be 18mm, and given where the center of the blade sits, or the effective cutting point depth for 18mm just back from it pretty much at the back edge of the blade, you're going to have the full base sitting on the rail. It isnt like its a circular saw where you need to place the front of the blade into the end of the board.
So I would have thought a 2.8m rail on a 2.4m board is ample. Same applies for the width. its 1.4m against 1.2m.
Im pretty sure rails lengths were designed purely on cutting 8x4 sheets which is why each length is 1.4m

If youre really stuck though, currently theres a continuous 3m festool rail for sale on ebay for 200 quid.

The saw has adjusters at the front and back ends of the slot that fits the guide rail. If these aren't both engaged on the track the saw can twist slightly on the rail so you don't want your saw hanging off the end of the rail at any point. To cross cut a 1224mm sheet the 1.4m rail needs to overhang at both ends and you need to plunge cut into the sheet at the start of the cut. I'd definitely prefer just enough extra length so that the plunge could be made into free space before pushing the saw forward into the timber, likewise pushed free of the sheet at the end of the cut before raising the blade. A 1.7m track or thereabouts would be ideal in my eyes and better suits a full length scoring cut but of course that extra 300mm makes it harder to transport and adds 2p to the cost of the extrusion !

 

[TRITON]

The saw has adjusters at the front and back ends of the slot that fits the guide rail. If these aren't both engaged on the track the saw can twist slightly on the rail so you don't want your saw hanging off the end of the rail at any point. To cross cut a 1224mm sheet the 1.4m rail needs to overhang at both ends and you need to plunge cut into the sheet at the start of the cut. I'd definitely prefer just enough extra length so that the plunge could be made into free space before pushing the saw forward into the timber, likewise pushed free of the sheet at the end of the cut before raising the blade. A 1.7m track or thereabouts would be ideal in my eyes and better suits a full length scoring cut but of course that extra 300mm makes it harder to transport and adds 2p to the cost of the extrusion !

I hear what you're saying, but nobody seems to be complaining about this flaw as you see it. Plus it does overhang 1400-1224 = 196mm.
But then you wouldn't need it to overhang equally as the front cutting edge of the blade is closer to the front edge of the machine than the back.
So from the vids i've watched, people overhang more at the rear than the front, certainly enough to mount the saw completely.

Is this a problem you have found from using the saw, equally overhanging the ends, or have you tried it where the overhang is more rear than front.
As I said, Festool invented the track saw, and have deemed the system for 8x4 sheets where the 1400 is enough for the 4 and twin rails are enough from the 8.
Festool don't F things up like that. If the rail is 1400mm its 1400mm for the reason is that is ideal for 4' sheet cuts.
It is nothing to do about money, because festool is expensive for everything they do and their customers accept that.

 

[Spectric]

Festool invented the track saw

Yes they may have started the race but they had nothing else to compare with or learn from so when others joined the race they would or should have ironed out any issues and made something better, it is how products evolve to become better and unfortunately why the domino has stood still since it's introduction, competition will breed inovation and force change to deliver better products and no one including festool is beyond making mistakes.

If the rail is 1400mm its 1400mm for the reason is that is ideal for 4' sheet cuts.

But Makita / Dewalt have 1500mm and Bosch / Mafell decided 1600mm was better so they have gone for them lengths because 1400mm is a tad short as @Sideways has noted.

I would have to agree that Festool is expensive, infact I would say extortionate because it is there marketing that creates the following that for some reason is willing to pay way over the odds, I will give them the fact they are leading in dust extraction but when comparing different products it can be very difficult to see how they can justify their pricing on anything other than brand loyalty, which I do not have.

 

[Distinterior]

One of my very early Festool purchases was a TS75 saw.....I had a specific project that required long, deep, accurate cuts at 45 degrees through material 55mm thick (The TS55 wont cut that deep at 45 degrees).
With the saw purchase, I bought a 1400mm rail and a 3000mm rail.....The first time I went to cross cut an 8 x 4 sheet with it, I knew I needed a longer rail than the 1400, so went and bought the 1900......absolutely no regrets and it makes cross cutting an 8 x 4 a breeze with both the TS55 and the longer baseplate TS75.

I do have brand loyalty as I genuinely believe they are a cut above other manufacturers ( with the exception perhaps of Mafell saws....)
Yes, ...they do come at a premium price but that TS75 saw and the CT dust extractor that I bought along with it, are now both more than 20 years old and have been used extensively and have more than earned their keep.

 

[Doug71]

The 1.4m rails are just long enough but another 100mm would be nice.

I would have to agree that Festool is expensive, infact I would say extortionate because it is there marketing that creates the following that for some reason is willing to pay way over the odds, I will give them the fact they are leading in dust extraction but when comparing different products it can be very difficult to see how they can justify their pricing on anything other than brand loyalty, which I do not have.

It's very easy to become brand loyal to Festool. It's not just the fact that the tools are good quality but things like the Systainers stack well in my van, you know the dust extractor hose end will fit the tool and the plug-it leads make for speedy tool swaps.

I could probably do exactly the same work using a mix of brands of power tools but Festool just keeps things simple and organised.

When you use them day in, day out the premium price tag is soon forgotten about, in fact they seem good value for money.

 

[TRITON]

1900 seem extraordinarily long . Thats 6'2" to cut a 4' board.
Fair point all the same. Shame they dont do something in between,. I feel though im probably going to have little problem for the most part buying the 1400mm rail. I just think if it was a problem, and the system has been out for a good while, there'd be reports saying the 1400 is too short and ive yet to find any.

 

[sams93]

I know i keep plugging it but the excel 1500 rail is less than half the price of all of the offerings being discussed (£35) and gives you the extra 100mm on top of the 1400...

 

[Spectric]

The problem is that no one manufacturer makes the best of everything so I initially ignore the brand and find who makes the best tool to do X and then price compare to see if the cost of the winner is justified or maybe one of the runner ups is so close the extra price is not justified and is the main reason I have not gone cordless because that just ties you to a brand unless you want a very expensive collection of batteries and chargers.

I know i keep plugging it but the excel 1500 rail is less than half the price of all of the offerings being discussed (£35) and gives you the extra 100mm on top of the 1400...

The Makita is only £50 Makita 199141-8 1.5m Guide Rail For SP6000 Plunge Saw

At the end of the day most of these trade saws will cut a sheet of say ply and no one could say what saw had cut what board because they are all more than capable, but if you want that bit extra in the way of dust extraction then Festool is the one, but it is a lot of cash just to control that dust unless you are working in someones living room.

 

[TRITON]

I know i keep plugging it but the excel 1500 rail is less than half the price of all of the offerings being discussed (£35) and gives you the extra 100mm on top of the 1400...

Sounds fair. Any reviews on how the festool marries to this excel rail. I have heard that some non brand rails present problems at the 45deg.
I need the rail obviously, but if you say the 1400 is going to present too many probs, i dont want to end up in a scenario where ive got to later on buy alternatives. I do feel 1900 is going to be too long for me and outside a 4' cut, theres little thats other that size.

I'll do some research into the excel 1500. See what others think and any YT vids concerning it.

Thanks for all the info on this.

 

[macca]

triton i would not worry about cutting 4x8 sheets with a 1.4 track, obviously for severely angled cuts or rips along a 2440 length a longer track would be necessary unless you are ok with stopping and moving the track along (really not an issue if you can mark accurately) and a 2.7m track is quite sufficient for the longer rips, i use a cordless ts55 almost daily in 12 + 18mm wbpa ply and occasionally 25mm MR MDF with no issues, yes you need to recharge on occasion and 4 batteries is an expense but if thats not an issue you wont be disappointed with your purchase. I also have access to 2 or 3 110v ts55's and i keep a 240v ts55 at home, providing you use a sharp blade none of the above are lacking if you use them properly.
with regards to track length i would go as far as to say a 1.9m or 3m track would actually be cumbersome and more of a pita to align and potentially bump into trying to move around it between aligning and cutting thus having to realign everything. (we use a hilti track saw for rougher work with a 3m track so i do know)

A complete aside but if anyone were here to gain opinions about purchasing such machines, look into hkc's the cut can be a little worse than a ts55 but its versatility is second to non, free hand circular saw, manual guard retraction (very handy on an angled entry to a cut) extremely accurate cutting with an fsk, can run on festool style tracks and it can even plunge cut and runs on a single battery. Hands down my favourite saw and if you haven't guessed already I've tried alot!

 

[sams93]

Sounds fair. Any reviews on how the festool marries to this excel rail. I have heard that some non brand rails present problems at the 45deg.
I need the rail obviously, but if you say the 1400 is going to present too many probs, i dont want to end up in a scenario where ive got to later on buy alternatives. I do feel 1900 is going to be too long for me and outside a 4' cut, theres little thats other that size.

I'll do some research into the excel 1500. See what others think and any YT vids concerning it.

Thanks for all the info on this.

Works perfectly with my TS55 have done both straight and 45 degree cuts. read the posts by myself and Peter Millard in this thread and You’ll see links to video r.e the track

 

[sometimewoodworker]

People are getting rather hung up on the fact that the Festool rail usually supplied with the saw is a 1400. The vast majority of dealers will let you swap out the 1400 for a longer rail of your choice with you just paying the difference in cost. So rail length is a bit of a non issue, decide the length you want and get it.

When I got my TS55 the only other option was Mafell (and nobody was talking about it) as the Festool patent had not expired. If I could go back the only change would be to swap the rail for a holly one, I didn’t know enough to ask to swap

Also not mentioned is the LR32 holy rails virtually the same price as the non holly rail and incredibly useful if you have or ever may have a need to add shelf pins or euro hinges so get the holly version if the size you want has that option

another point is joining rails, I’ve been doing it for about 15 years and got the Betterly jig, all my rail joins are perfectly aligned and take seconds to make.

Festool is a superb saw and system. Running routers on the tracks makes for more options

 

[Bob008]

I have the Mafell 18v and it’s fantastic I also have the festool 18/36v and it’s much better than that the extraction is far better and the tracks are absolutely superb I bought a Bosch 3.1m track (same as Mafell) and it’s so convenient and much cheaper

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I bought a TS55 when the only other option was Mafell as well. I got two 1400 rails and never had an issues. More than a decade later it still looks like new (under dust) and works like new in my 'table noways connected to a vacuum. I have also bought the TSC55 which I use with it's built in dust bag. Not quite as good as a TS55 when connected unto the vacuum system but pretty good dust collection. The TSC55 does seem more powerful but I have never challenged either saws on power (and most of my boards are heavy African hard woods like Leadwood and Rhodesian Copal wood, not MDF / Ply. Both do the job really well. I never felt the need for longer rails though I have an assortment noways. I suspect I would have been as happy with a Mafell. More than a decade of use with no issues on corded and approaching 4 years on cordless, with one failed battery which was replaced immediately by Festool, which had nothing to do with the saw. I would happy with either as they do the job.

 

[Spectric]

Also not mentioned is the LR32 holy rails virtually the same price as the non holly rail

Make your own with

I have used it to make holes in my Makita track, and then you just use this fixture with your router to make as many shelf pin holes as you like

https://fctools.co.uk/product/fc32-for-festool-and-bosch-rails/
It can also be used to make the 20mm holes in a worktop for benchdogs.

 

[Hornbeam]

I've just pulled the trigger(about 5 hours ago) on the TS55FEBQ, via FFX on ebay which has 15% off,, meaning a saving of £64, and I paid £364 for the bare saw. But it is the latest model.

With a bit of hindsight, the saw plus rail with the 15% off cones to £425, which is a better saving really(£75) as you're getting the 1400mm rail too, basically for an extra £61, when the rail alone to buy later would cost you an additional £110.
I didnt notice at the time they had the rail inc version, my bad. Hopefully you can learn from my mistake and take the advantage i screwed up on.

All said and done im happy to have finally bought it all the same, and happy with the price ive paid.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393194396222?hash=item5b8c365a3e:g:cmAAAOSwtaJirECW

As to which you should get - cordless or corded i did see this vid and although i didnt want the cordless as im really not a full time user of it, the guy in the vid is a professional carpenter, and if its a professional basis you want it for then what he has to say makes sense.

Thanks for this link Triton. I have been looking to get a Festool saw for several months and at those prices I couldnt say no. Unfortunately now on backorder until July

 

[Fanous]

I've got the cordless Makita at home, with long and short rails. Love it.Not having to faf around with the cored is lovely. Granted, hose attached, but at least them two don't get entangled together, plus the hose is quickly in and out, so the tool is still fairly free. And when breaking out the sheets in front of the garage, I don't use the hoover. Freedom maximus.

 

[TRITON]

Make your own with

I have used it to make holes in my Makita track, and then you just use this fixture with your router to make as many shelf pin holes as you like

https://fctools.co.uk/product/fc32-for-festool-and-bosch-rails/
It can also be used to make the 20mm holes in a worktop for benchdogs.

I see that Festool are doing a guide rail with holes already in it. I think for the rail i need to buy, i should get that one.
Not saying I'll mess it up drilling holes in the rail later on But if its already done for you and its not that much a difference between the standard rail- £103, and the pre drilled rail - £123(ebay prices)

https://www.axminstertools.com/festool-guide-rail-fs-1400-2-lr-32-931572