Planes

[Jez]

hello,

rite, I've been doing wood working at collage for a year now going back to do my second year in september.
I own some hand tools - chisels, saws etc... but i don't own a plane
i know how to use a plane, set it up, sharpen the blade etc..
I've been saving for quite a while, and i've gotten enough money to buy some planes.

The planes i have in mind are :

LN #4.5 smoother (king of the shop, says Rob Cosman :shock: lol )
LN 102 or LN 60.5

im deciding between the 102 and the 60.5 because im not sure if the adjustable mouth is really needed :?
Would the Rabbet Block Plane be a good choice ? for general block plane work and fitting tennons.. :x

am i mad for getting LN planes as my first planes ?

any advice would be great

cheers,
Jez

 

[Philly]

Jez
Exciting stuff-you're first plane! Be careful, they can be addictive (I'm told 8-[ )
I find the L-N 102 fixed mouth block to be a fantastic plane-you really don't need to go for the adjustable mouth block. (I have both and the 102 gets the most use by far). It also never rusts as it is bronze!
As you have no other planes maybe a #5 or #5.5 would be a better starting point for the bench planes? The extra length is handy for truing edges, etc. but it will also smooth as well as the #4.5 if you set it up right.
Lie-Nielsen tools are built to a very high standard and come with a lifetime guarantee. You can also sell them on Ebay for at least what you paid for them, they are in that much demand. So don't worry about buying the best for your first plane. After all-you ARE going to use them, aren't you? :lol:
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Alf]

There's a pile of info on block planes in the archive, like here. Also lots and lots of "discussion" on bench planes - f'rinstance here and here.

Basically you're asking "how long is a piece of string?" :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[-David-]

I am making an assumption here - since you are in your first year of college can I guess that you are not married, have no kids and no mortgage? If this is the case buy the best you can now before it is too late! :wink:

Also, if you have a variety of decent kit, do not forget the insurance.

David

 

[Paul Chapman]

not sure if the adjustable mouth is really needed :?

Personally, I find adjustable mouths on planes an essential feature so would always go for the adjustable mouth version of the block plane and bench planes with bedrock frogs (as you get on Lie Nielson and Clifton) as they make mouth adjustment easy :wink:

Paul

 

[Jez]

Thanks for the great advice everybody,

philly, Would it be best to get a LN #5 and a #102 and with the money i save getting the 102 rather then the 60.5 i could get a second blade for the #5 for smoothing (corners rounded) :x

cheers,
Jez

 

[matthew]

I love my No 7 jointer. Thought it was enormous when someone lent me one a few years back but soon got used to it and had to get my own one on eBay. I have a No 5 also, but the No 7 gets used for most things!

 

[Anonymous]

Jez, these were my first LNs. I can heartily recommend them as a good buy that you will most definitely be happy with.

You, err, may find the 'need' for more LNs once you've used these though :wink:

 

[engineer one]

many people have given the obviosu answers, but a couple to be going
on with.

with all the people who do find s/h planes, and re-fettle them,
i think the ability to find units which do not require mountains of
work is diminishing, and frankly, the work involved does not
always get you a piece of equipment that matches either
LN or LV. Plus, you need to spend extra bucks upgrading
blades etc.

so i reckon, it is worth doing the sums, and then the LN/LV suddenly
become very competitive, plus you get more time to practice planing,
not fettling.

i wonder though whether they are the things to use at a college course.
and for gawds sake don't let any one borrow them, you'll never get them back.

if you can try one out, it is worth looking at the bevel up
planes too, they do offer certain advantages, particularly at
the beginning when you need to learn more about planing, and
less about setting things up.

i guess with the block planes there is a big gap in price between a
normal one and one with the adjustable mouth, but i feel the
adjustment makes the plane more usable, and since you are
starting out, since you have that facility at the get go, you might
find it indispensible.

have you thought about the no 62 also, might be a good compromise.

but as philly has said the slope is very sharp and downward all the time.

good luck
paul :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

the slope is very sharp and downward all the time.

Jez - the slope as Philly mentioned is very steep, but only if you allow yourself to get sucked into the mental maelstrom that tool collecting becomes. For example Alan Peters (and they don't come much finer as a maker) uses just the following planes:
Wooden - 1 jack plane for fast stock removal
4 jack planes ground for curved work
1 scrub plane
Metal - 1 No7 jointer and three extra irons
1 No4 smoother (site work only)
1 No 91/2 block
Shoulder plane
Side rebate
Compass
Spokeshaves
Peters hates portable routers, so I imagine that the compass plane is used instead. Shoulder and rebate plane are used only occaisonally.
He also states that by far the most important piece of kit is the bench and a good one will set you back allot more than a single plane. As an aside, when I was at college, all my hand tools had to fit into a wooden tool box approx 650x200x400mm as they all had to fit in racks under our benches, so a vast collection of hardware was simply not an option - Rob

 

[Anonymous]

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[filsgreen]

I wouldn't bother with Lee and Nielson they are just too expensive or over-engineered whichever way you look at it.

Set the cat amongst the pigeons there Jacob
Phil

 

[engineer one]

it's intregueing to see people suggest that hand planes can be over
engineered. i can understand the comments about expense,
but when you figure a working career of up to 40 years, then
per year the best is always cheaper.

whilst i agree that some of the traditional manufacturers have produced some good products in the past, experience at sharpening at least,
recently tells me that blade quality at least is not the same.

where i thank the great god common sense is that both LV and LN take sometime and care with seasoning their castings. you cannot in my view and exerience expect castings that are machined after they have just cooled, rather than waiting until the various stresses have settled.

in my youth, even ford motor cars had their cast iron mountain at
dagenham where after casting and release from the moulding boxes,
were left to get both hot and cold for a period to allow them to settle
properly. and when we wanted to build top quality racing engines
for f5000, and even drag racing, we wanted the oldest most abused
engines to ensure that our works was not wasted by later movement
when the engines got used in anger.

it seems from the work i have done that both stanley and record no
longer give proper concern to seasoning castings for a suitable period
before machining, and frankly unless someone else is paying there
are better things in woodworking to do than flatten a relatively
expensive new or old plane from one of the better known companies,
and add good handles and better blades etc. we all know about
modern chip breakers, and the flimsy bearing items used.

so although i agree that LN and LV may appear expensive, if you
can afford them, and want to start woodworking more quickly,
plus have something that is much more effectively adjustable, then
my advice is go for it.

once you start working for either someone else or yourself, you may
not be able to afford it again for a while, and you will regret not
having done it.

but be selective and i tend now after a heavy bunch of planing last night
to think that if you start with, a number 7, and maybe a 51/2, plus a decent block plane, and a shoulder plane, must say i like my LV one with the moveable rear handle. then you have a good basic kit.

as you move further down the slope, you will find others you want, in
which case you know where to go.

hope this helps, and does not lead to outright war. :twisted:

paul :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

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[cutting42]

in my youth, even ford motor cars had their cast iron mountain atdagenha m where after casting and release from the moulding boxes, were left to get both hot and cold for a period to allow them to settle properly. and when we wanted to build top quality racing engines for f5000, and even drag racing, we wanted the oldest most abused engines to ensure that our works was not wasted by later movement when the engines got used in anger.

Stightly OT but the BMW F1 engine used in Brabhams in the mid to late 80's were built round a 1.5 litre standard production engine cast iron block that as rumour had it were left outside behind the factory in rain and shine where workers were encouraged to "relieve" themselves over it. This aided the destressing of the block such that these engines still hold the record for the highest specific output of 1 bhp per cubic centimeter, that's over 1,500 bhp in full qualifying trim.

apologies for OT, normal service will return as soon as possible :lol:

 

[engineer one]

gareth how can words about "unusual" ways of "enhancing" the
capabilites of cast iron ?:lol:

you are right about the beemers, but also old american "yellow"
school buses were the best for engines for high powered 5 litre
racers.

anyway i do stand by the comment about having to
spend ages remaking a plane when you can buy something better
"off the shelf" seems a waste of my natural resources
"time" :twisted:

still each to his own.

we all have our axes to grind, but as with power tools,
go for the best you can get at the time you need it.

maybe instead of a 51/2, that i recommended you should go for
a 41/2 but that's about feel and touch i think.

paul :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

When I was at college in the mid 70's a lad had a brand new Record No6 which he couldn't do any thing with - it simply would not take any sort of shaving. He asked me what was the matter it, amongst other choice expletives and I put a straight edge along the sole from toe to heel. There was about a 3mm bow in the sole of the plane - he was obviously not a happy bunny so I told him to take it back to the shop and get a new one which I think he did - replacement was fine, I think - Rob

 

[Colin C]

He asked me what was the matter it, amongst other choice expletives and I put a straight edge along the sole from toe to heel. There was about a 3mm bow in the sole of the plane which I think he did Rob

This is why I have planes made for 1925 ( stanley with the low knobs ), my No6 I bought about 20 years ago and it is still flat as are all of my old planes ( I cant afford Ln or LV just yet :roll: ).
If you are after a good old No4 1/2 I have one for sale and I will sharpen it for you to 8-[ ( how did that happen :roll: )

 

[Jez]

If you are after a good old No4 1/2 I have one for sale and I will sharpen it for you to 8-[ ( how did that happen :roll: )

a LN #4 1/2 :shock:

also thanks for the great advice everyone, really is a help

 

[engineer one]

it's nice to see there is still youthful optomism on the
site :lol: :lol: :lol:

if colin has a ln, then he may well feel that he is in heaven :twisted:

paul :wink: