planes and shooting boards.

[Reggie]

Hi Guys, I have a record no.4 smoothing plane that I've sharpened, I think I've set it up reasonably well with a tight mouth 1/32", however I can get the shavings to come out centred but I don't seem to be able to extend the blade enough to do more than about 1" of shaving, am I doing something wrong here? If I extend the blade out too far it becomes impossible to plane.

I know that I'm supposed to put a slight camber on the edges of the blade to stop the corners leaving marks, however the camber I've put on doesn't seem excessive, perhaps that's the issue that it's not enough?

This leads me onto the shooting board question, if this is the correct way that the plane is supposed to work, is it appropriate to use on a shooting board?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Mouth's a little too tight - drop the frog back a little. You would be better using a dead straight blade on a shooting board, as you are trying to leave a dead straight, right angled and FLAT edge, and you have no marks from the corners of the blade to worry about.

 

[Reggie]

Hi Phil, thanks, it did seem at odds to put a camber on a blade if you want to put a straight edge on some wood. Makes me wonder whether I'm looking at it in the right way, whether I should look at getting a 2nd plane (for non-shooting board planing) or a 2nd blade instead of hoping to get away with a single smoothing plane/blade for everything.

Having just checked the blade, it seems that I haven't got much if any of a camber on it at all. I have slackened the mouth a bit to 1/16". I haven't made the shooting board yet, mainly because I couldn't see how it would work properly with a cambered blade

 

[matthewwh]

A smidge of camber won't do any harm on a shooting board. Any hollow in the centre will be within range for the glue and, if anything, it prevents the joint from being held open and guarantees that the corners of the boards will make tightly with the adjoining piece.

That said, there is nothing wrong with a square blade with a whisp of camber on the ends. As long as it feathers in any track marks and gives you a means of adjusting for square when jointing, it's doing its job.

Of greater concern should be the fact that you are only getting 1" shavings. I would try sharpening the blade square for a few strokes and see if you can achieve a broader cut.

 

[Noggsy]

Two planes just isn't trying hard enough :lol:

 

[lanemaux]

What Nogs said . I have 3 or 4 near enough to touch and I'm at my computer desk. The shop and the bulk of my shaving makers is downstairs. A camber need not be very much , as suggested above. The only really easy to spot cambers on my blades are on the Jacks and other "stock removal" bench planes . (I know , Daddy has a plane problem). In the case of number fours in particular it is just a matter of a bit of downward pressure to the corners , a bit on each side and no more. Sometimes I knock of the very edge of the corner with just a stroke or two. If you look at it , the blade looks straight across. This is because these planes are the ones I am aiming for "Japanese competition " shavings from . When the shaving are that thin only a tiny camber keeps the track marks away quite adequately.

 

[Reggie]

I've had a play with the mouth of the plane and I'm much happier with it, getting a much broader shaving off it now As for having more than one plane, I do intend to in the future but right now this is my first plane and I'm just getting things straight, I had a feeling someone would recommend more than one

I haven't added a camber yet because adjusting the mouth seemed to sort things out quite a bit, I had issues with the practice piece of wood being a bit knotty, I seem to have a habit of grabbing test pieces that give me issues that I'm not recognising straight away, emerging knots is one of them, where you have what appears to be a knot free surface that you're planing but shave enough off to start going into a knot that you weren't aware of, so being mindful of knots on the sides as well as the face being planed solves that.

I've been getting quite nice shavings off the number 4, so all in all right now we appear to be in a happy place

I had a little bit of hassle getting the frog right, as there is backlash in the screw that moves it backwards and forwards, worked out that I should make the final movement forwards on the screw whilst pushing the frog backwards, making sure it's parallel to the mouth and then tightening things up.

 

[GazPal]

I had a little bit of hassle getting the frog right, as there is backlash in the screw that moves it backwards and forwards, worked out that I should make the final movement forwards on the screw whilst pushing the frog backwards, making sure it's parallel to the mouth and then tightening things up.

Sounds like you're getting into the swing of things :wink:

Mastering the set up and how to use your first plane is the hardest part and it's "plane" sailing from then on.

 

[Jacob]

I had a little bit of hassle getting the frog right, as there is backlash in the screw that moves it backwards and forwards, worked out that I should make the final movement forwards on the screw whilst pushing the frog backwards, making sure it's parallel to the mouth and then tightening things up.

I wouldn't bother with frog adjustment at your stage of the learning curve. It's a bit of a fad and for most purposes of no value. Best to set the frog back to be dead in line with the back of the mouth to give maximum support for the blade and better planing performance.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A smidge of camber won't do any harm on a shooting board. Any hollow in the centre will be within range for the glue and, if anything, it prevents the joint from being held open and guarantees that the corners of the boards will make tightly with the adjoining piece.

That said, there is nothing wrong with a square blade with a whisp of camber on the ends. As long as it feathers in any track marks and gives you a means of adjusting for square when jointing, it's doing its job.

Of greater concern should be the fact that you are only getting 1" shavings. I would try sharpening the blade square for a few strokes and see if you can achieve a broader cut.

The problem there being that a slight hollow wouldn't matter, but you're not going to get a hollow unless you're using the very centre of the camber, which of course you're not when using a shooting board. You're going to get a slightly curved slope out of square. An inch wide shaving would suggest more than a slight camber.

 

[bugbear]

I've had a play with the mouth of the plane and I'm much happier with it, getting a much broader shaving off it now

If you needed to open the mouth wider than 1/32" (31 thou) so that you could take a thick enough shaving such that you got a broad shaving it is evident that your blade has (way) too much camber, particularly for a smoother.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

I forgot to add - a lot of beginners pick up on the shooting board idea as an essential gadget but in fact it's perfectly possible to do everything without one. Many typical constructions don't call for one at all.
Arguably it's better to get the hang of squaring things up without, as a matter of course, and just reserve a shooting board for when you are in production mode.

 

[Paul Chapman]

I forgot to add - a lot of beginners pick up on the shooting board idea as an essential gadget but in fact it's perfectly possible to do everything without one. Many typical constructions don't call for one at all.
Arguably it's better to get the hang of squaring things up without, as a matter of course, and just reserve a shooting board for when you are in production mode.

I find that comment very odd, Jacob. I rate the shooting board as one of the most useful accessories and use one frequently.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I was just going to say that I was pleased to hear Jacob say that - I don't have a shooting board and was beginning to wonder if I was missing out. I remember being taught how to use one in "O"-level woodwork classes, to plane the ends of some bits of wood that would be the rails of our stools, but I can't figure out for the life of me why. Who is going to see the end of the tenon ?

On the other hand I do actually find a 45 degree shooting board very useful for making picture frames etc.

 

[bugbear]

I was just going to say that I was pleased to hear Jacob say that - I don't have a shooting board and was beginning to wonder if I was missing out.

Judging by the number I've seen, all heavily used, when workshops sell up, I think "the old guys" found uses for them.

BugBear

 

[Reggie]

You lot crack me up, fantastic advice as usual but there is always a difference of opinion I will be building a shooting board, mainly because it looks like a relatively simple thing to make, useful to use and I need practice on simple stuff before I tackle bigger projects I'm sure that I'll have a solid opinion over things when I've had some experience but for now that's what I'm gaining most out of building one.

 

[GazPal]

You lot crack me up, fantastic advice as usual but there is always a difference of opinion I will be building a shooting board, mainly because it looks like a relatively simple thing to make, useful to use and I need practice on simple stuff before I tackle bigger projects I'm sure that I'll have a solid opinion over things when I've had some experience but for now that's what I'm gaining most out of building one.

There's always more than one way to change a light bulb. :lol:

I think you're doing the right thing by asking and treating kit building as skill building exercises. I'd recommend making a toolbox/chest and a pair of saw horses and possible projects.

 

[bugbear]

I'm sure that I'll have a solid opinion over things when I've had some experience...

That's not a pre-requisite!

BugBear

 

[Reggie]

I've been thinking about a tool box/chest/cupboard/shelf of some description, I've got a nice solid wardrobe that I don't have room in the flat for, I was thinking that I mightbuild something to put inside it that won't damage it at all that I could use for various tools.

 

[woodbrains]

I was just going to say that I was pleased to hear Jacob say that - I don't have a shooting board and was beginning to wonder if I was missing out. I remember being taught how to use one in "O"-level woodwork classes, to plane the ends of some bits of wood that would be the rails of our stools, but I can't figure out for the life of me why. Who is going to see the end of the tenon ?

On the other hand I do actually find a 45 degree shooting board very useful for making picture frames etc.

Hello,

If you marked the tenon shoulders with a gauge, you would want them square. If you wanted to make X no of pieces all exactly the same length ( and square simultaneously) a shooting board would be a boon. And just as 45 degree joints benefit from a 45 degree shooting board, 90 degree ones do similarly, for biscuit joints, loose tenons, splines etc. There are loads of uses for a shooting board, especially where the work requires a bit more precision and repeatability than frame joinery.

Mike.